Is this the start of the end for the Gig Economy?

#23

If there ever was a bigger oxymoron, this is it, politics by its very nature is the art of miss information, wrapped up in half truths and down right lies, and served up to the gullible masses as fact and condescending patronised bollocks, by astute venal carrer minded greasy pole climbers, backed by unseen city spivs, ....allegedly .
 
#24
If there ever was a bigger oxymoron, this is it, politics by its very nature is the art of miss information, wrapped up in half truths and down right lies, and served up to the gullible masses as fact and condescending patronised bollocks, by astute venal carrer minded greasy pole climbers, backed by unseen city spivs, ....allegedly .
No allegedly about it.
 
#25
I have little time, for any business, which avoids its social responsibility, to pay tax. They can hide behind accountancy rules, loopholes, offshored monies, or any number of clever loopholes.
How fortunate you never use a mobile phone, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Spotify, eBay, FTSE 250 firms or your local corner shop.

How is the weather up in the Ozark mountains? The gig economy has been with us for 95% of recorded human history. Adjust.
 
#27
#28
I’ve just watched this on the news, nothing has changed in the law it just clarifies what is a worker as proscribed by EU regulations.
 
#29
With this latest ruling by the courts, is this the start of the end for many types of self employment, particularly within the Construction Industry?
Plumber wins landmark employment rights case
I doubt it. Pimlico could just act as an agency, employing construction workers for jobs as they arise. All they'll have to do is tweak their contracts. Similarly they can employ nobody except admin staff and sub-contract the construction work to genuinely self-employed people.
 
#31
I doubt it. Pimlico could just act as an agency, employing construction workers for jobs as they arise. All they'll have to do is tweak their contracts. Similarly they can employ nobody except admin staff and sub-contract the construction work to genuinely self-employed people.
The problem there is NI, unless they sub-contract to Ltds, if they take on someone who appears genuinely self employed they can get stuck with paying NI for that person if the IR deem them to be an employee for tax purposes

Hence why Ltd companies are often used as an intermediary, and why IR35 came in. So instead of the employer paying NI as the deemed employer, if the worker is deemed to be an employee for tax purposes their ltd company has to pay the NI not the actual deemed employer

Big business loves it as the still have the perfect tax avoidance vehicle, and the worker gets to pay employees and employers NI
 
#32
Big business loves it as the still have the perfect tax avoidance vehicle, and the worker gets to pay employees and employers NI
which they charge to the big business through an increased hourly rate. The reason businesses want to use contractors is not to avoid tax, it is because they can hire and lay off staff as required without six months farting around selecting [according to all sorts of arcane legal rules] and then paying for redundancy.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#33
Is Mr Mullins not the husband of the woman who went to court to force a Commons vote/review of brexit? Using money earned avoiding tax and using cheaper immigrant labour to fund pro-EU legal challenges.

I hereby invoke Godwins EU Directive. I blame brexit.
 
#34
which they charge to the big business through an increased hourly rate. The reason businesses want to use contractors is not to avoid tax, it is because they can hire and lay off staff as required without six months farting around selecting [according to all sorts of arcane legal rules] and then paying for redundancy.
Not always just that, there is the Friday to Monday scenario where workers were employees, but big company decides rather than paying NI, pensions etc it's better to say you're going to become self employed you can charge us more it's a win

Now employee thinks it's a win, till IR35 comes knocking and guess who ends up paying the price...not big co

Plenty of people who should be employees have been forced into being self employed, it saves tax and like you say makes it easier to hire and fire

Looking at the accounting measures big business make to avoid tax, you really think the tax avoidance aspect of making employers become self employed pays no part

If that was true IR35 would not exist
 
D

Deleted 154930

Guest
#35
How fortunate you never use a mobile phone, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Spotify, eBay, FTSE 250 firms or your local corner shop.

How is the weather up in the Ozark mountains? The gig economy has been with us for 95% of recorded human history. Adjust.
spoken like a true oppressor.
 
#36
Not always just that, there is the Friday to Monday scenario where workers were employees, but big company decides rather than paying NI, pensions etc it's better to say you're going to become self employed you can charge us more it's a win

Now employee thinks it's a win, till IR35 comes knocking and guess who ends up paying the price...not big co

Plenty of people who should be employees have been forced into being self employed, it saves tax and like you say makes it easier to hire and fire

Looking at the accounting measures big business make to avoid tax, you really think the tax avoidance aspect of making employers become self employed pays no part

If that was true IR35 would not exist
The amount of unemployment benefit, SSP and SMP was linked to the amount of Class 1 NI you paid as an employee. Also, employees got redundancy pay.

If you were an employee paying Class 1 NI, which had a ceiling, the employer was on the hook for the Secondary element, which was uncapped. This could get very, very expensive for the company.

You could be Schedule D or IR35 for tax purposes, but that often just meant that you had several jobs or erratic earnings, and PAYE didn't work.

We used to get a number of cases where highly paid employees would suddenly get told they were self employed, usually just before they went on maternity leave or got sacked.

The key element for the DSS used to be 'control'.
If you are genuinely self employed, you are under your own control as to how and what you do.
If you wear the company clothing, drive the company van, and go where the company tells you, you are an employee.
 
#37
Wonder if this will impact the temp work/umbrella company scam? I've done a couple of bouts of contract work in recent years and it goes like this. Agency X phones up and says we've got a job for you paying £nn an hour, ostensibly a fair rate."Oh, and we process our payroll through an umbrella company". So, at the end of the week /month I send the agency my hours. Agency bills my workplace for my hourly rate plus their commission. Fair so far. Now agency X passes the data and dosh to umbrella company Y, who deduct management fees, Employers NI, holiday pay contribution, etc etc, before paying balance to me to have tax, employees NI and pension contribution deducted. Suddenly the hourly rate doesn't look so good. Before IR35 there was some point, inasmuch as I could at least deduct travel expenses from my taxable, but even that benefit has gone now. Oh and the kisser is, although Agency X and Umbrella company Y have totally unrelated names and are careful not to put their postal address on their website, a little digging shows they both operate out of the same office.
 
#38
Wonder if this will impact the temp work/umbrella company scam? I've done a couple of bouts of contract work in recent years and it goes like this. Agency X phones up and says we've got a job for you paying £nn an hour, ostensibly a fair rate."Oh, and we process our payroll through an umbrella company". So, at the end of the week /month I send the agency my hours. Agency bills my workplace for my hourly rate plus their commission. Fair so far. Now agency X passes the data and dosh to umbrella company Y, who deduct management fees, Employers NI, holiday pay contribution, etc etc, before paying balance to me to have tax, employees NI and pension contribution deducted. Suddenly the hourly rate doesn't look so good. Before IR35 there was some point, inasmuch as I could at least deduct travel expenses from my taxable, but even that benefit has gone now. Oh and the kisser is, although Agency X and Umbrella company Y have totally unrelated names and are careful not to put their postal address on their website, a little digging shows they both operate pit of the same office.
Shows that they are usually the same company.
 
#39
Wonder if this will impact the temp work/umbrella company scam? I've done a couple of bouts of contract work in recent years and it goes like this. Agency X phones up and says we've got a job for you paying £nn an hour, ostensibly a fair rate."Oh, and we process our payroll through an umbrella company". So, at the end of the week /month I send the agency my hours. Agency bills my workplace for my hourly rate plus their commission. Fair so far. Now agency X passes the data and dosh to umbrella company Y, who deduct management fees, Employers NI, holiday pay contribution, etc etc, before paying balance to me to have tax, employees NI and pension contribution deducted. Suddenly the hourly rate doesn't look so good. Before IR35 there was some point, inasmuch as I could at least deduct travel expenses from my taxable, but even that benefit has gone now. Oh and the kisser is, although Agency X and Umbrella company Y have totally unrelated names and are careful not to put their postal address on their website, a little digging shows they both operate out of the same office.
The whole point of that is to drive you into real permanent employment, after thinking why bother

The government then get a steady stream of taxes being paid, and a larger captive audience to fleece with tax increases as most employees don't enjoy the benefits of being able to stagger their income over different tax years for tax efficiency or have other tax avoidance vehicles available

Also it's about control, but that's story
 
#40
They can hide behind accountancy rules, loopholes, offshored monies, or any number of clever loopholes............The tories really are a shower of shite.
The biggest expansion of the tax code in recent times, and with it the scope for even more loopholes and dodges, was by Gordon Brown - a Labour chancellor...
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top