Is this situation acceptable? If not what to do.

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#1
2 officers of my aquantance have a bit of a problem. Starting in Mid-March thier department is required to have 24 hour on call coverage at 15mins NTM. There should be 4 of them but 2 posts are gapped for the next 5 months so there are only 2 of them. ie they will be on call one week on and one week off. The department is also required to provide a duty officer every week, so on the week that they are not on call they will duty officer for 1 day. ie they are to be on call or duty 8 days out of 14.

The CoC is aware of the problem but has does not appear to be doing anything.

As you can imagine this schedule will be quite intrusive on thier lives and although I'm hopeful that a solution might be found the anticipation is already causing stress. Any suggestion to either of them that they should anything is met with either 'I can't because I'll be on call, or I can't because I'll be to knackered' and will just want to relax'.

I'm sure the stock answer is 'redress', but one of them is in the promotion zone and needs good OJARs, and say what you like redressing is not a good career move.

To me it once again highlights the need for a Federation but....

Any advice gratefully recieved
 
#2
If you need to ask advice on this...................................

Maybe you shouldn't be an "Officer".

It's tough at the top, but I suspect you're near the bottom......................... you'll get over it.
 
#3
Chin on it take the

Is this like the fox the chicken and a canoe
 
#5
Almost a knee jerk reaction of, tell them to stop F**king whinging and get on with it, however, giving the benefit of the doubt, what does the 15 NTM mean? NTM to do what (OPSEC allowing)?

I personally have not come across many people on readiness of less than R1 (24 hrs). These Offrs could, however, be specialists. In that case surely they knew what they where getting into when they accepted the post, therefore !!!!!!!!

Is he sat in full kit ready to go (not aware of many jobs requiring that level of readiness)? Is he confined to a duty room for 7 days? Or is he at home on the end of a phone and how likely/often is it that the 15 min call comes.

If it is a home duty, they should remember, Troops are on tour for 6 months at a time, no luxury of sitting at home waiting for a phone to ring. As I brief my lads on rear party (when I am Lucky!!! Enough to do the job).

It doesn’t mater if you have to work late for the next 6 months. It doesn’t matter if you have to work Saturdays or Sundays for the next 6 months, at then end of your duty you go back to your room/home and relax, the lads on tour don’t get that luxury. But then, I have never been that popular in some quarters, Oh well!!!!!
 
#7
Meant NTM in this particular case, i.e what does THE NTM mean. Not what does NTM mean, but thank you!!!!!!
 
#8
sknn said:
The CoC is aware of the problem but has does not appear to be doing anything.

As you can imagine this schedule will be quite intrusive on thier lives and although I'm hopeful that a solution might be found the anticipation is already causing stress. Any suggestion to either of them that they should anything is met with either 'I can't because I'll be on call, or I can't because I'll be to knackered' and will just want to relax'.

I'm sure the stock answer is 'redress', but one of them is in the promotion zone and needs good OJARs, and say what you like redressing is not a good career move.

To me it once again highlights the need for a Federation but....

Any advice gratefully recieved
Christ almighty! Anticipation is causing them stress?!! They need to have a long hard look at themselves - what about all those who've been on residential tours of NI, or been SLE, or in JFHQ and all the others? If it is so hard for the poor darlings then maybe they should leave, and do something not quite as demanding, like maybe flipping burgers in McDonalds.

They'll be knackered from being on call?? Fcuk me - it must be a particularly tiring activity waiting for a phone call.

At least the bloke who needs the good OJARs has had decent reporting officers thus far in his career, and has clearly been found to be unimpressive.

Tell them to leave is my advice.

Need a federation? Get a grip.
 
#9
I have been doing a 1:2 or 1:3 on-call for the most of the last 10 years, with a requirement to answer calls 'immediately' (i.e. no ansaphone), and be able to turn up at hospital, smartly dressed, within 30 mins. This has, in last few months, changed to allow calls to be answered within 1 hour and attending within 4 hours. It doesn't make much difference; it's tedious, it ties you down and restricts your life in all sorts of ways (family emergency - find someone to cover before you deal with it - that sort of thing).

Some research has been done on the subject and in fact being on call for long periods has been shown to cause fatigue; the constant anticipation of being called causes one not to sleep properly. I'll see if I can dig it out - it may be more helpful than simply being told to get a grip.
 
#10
Tell them to dry their eyes!

My first tour of Belfast - apart from 4 days r&r back in the 'shot was 2:4. That's 2 hours stagging / 4 hours off / 2 hours patroling / 4 hours off for 4 months.

15 minutes NTM in Barracks - piece of p*ss.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#11
sknn said:
To me it once again highlights the need for a Federation but....

Any advice gratefully recieved
I'm 100% sure that this is not the kind of the issue that the proposed Federation would get directly involved in. It's an operational matter and it would involve a Federation representative saying to a CO 'Your judgement is wrong' which would be entirely irresponsible and out of order.
 
#12
I thought I had left that behind when I left - my contract now says "work the hours commensurate with the needs of the business", so nothings changed, I'm still on call, but at least I get paid for it now. With regard to the originator of the thread, what can I say - it's bloody good training.
 
#13
My heart pumps purple pish!

Stag on - whinging fcukers. The tax payer wants value for money!
 
#14
sknn said:
2 officers of my aquantance have a bit of a problem. Starting in Mid-March thier department is required to have 24 hour on call coverage at 15mins NTM. There should be 4 of them but 2 posts are gapped for the next 5 months so there are only 2 of them. ie they will be on call one week on and one week off. The department is also required to provide a duty officer every week, so on the week that they are not on call they will duty officer for 1 day. ie they are to be on call or duty 8 days out of 14.

The CoC is aware of the problem but has does not appear to be doing anything.

As you can imagine this schedule will be quite intrusive on thier lives and although I'm hopeful that a solution might be found the anticipation is already causing stress. Any suggestion to either of them that they should anything is met with either 'I can't because I'll be on call, or I can't because I'll be to knackered' and will just want to relax'.

I'm sure the stock answer is 'redress', but one of them is in the promotion zone and needs good OJARs, and say what you like redressing is not a good career move.

To me it once again highlights the need for a Federation but....

Any advice gratefully recieved
Please tell me these 'aahheemm' acquaintances of yours are not in Cyprus, if so, I think you know where the sympathy lies, tell "them" to get a grip "quite intrusive on their lives" wtf? Maybe they should get a job in the civil service, the army does not sound like the right job for them. I can only assume they have been commissioned in the last few years....whingers

In my day Officers were leaders of men not compensation culture inspired whinging weaklings.


Hurummph going to beat the gardener and go on a tiger shoot now
 
#15
You are taking the piss aren't you?

As one of the duty ATOs scattered about the country, I've spent the last 5 years of my life on R0-0 which means pretty much immediate NTM. During that time I spent 8 months in Belfast (Girdwood) on the fastest response possible; We'd sleep in our boots, keep the engines of the trucks running & take the phone & pager into the shower room with us. :cry:

Having to be on 15 mins NTM to answer a phone every other week seems like quite a cushy number. You are in the Army aren't you? not just a civil service admin assistant who can only let people have stationery between 10.00 and 10.05 on days which have no 'A' in them. :x

Stag on, shut up and consider yourself lucky you whinging git. :evil:

Duty in the Army being instrusive in your social lives? Indeed! :!:
 
#16
I think that the situation is acceptable

Although the replies haven't been that helpful, if this post had not been in the officers forum I am sure it would have had different answers
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#17
beefer said:
Tell them to dry their eyes!

My first tour of Belfast - apart from 4 days r&r back in the 'shot was 2:4. That's 2 hours stagging / 4 hours off / 2 hours patroling / 4 hours off for 4 months.

15 minutes NTM in Barracks - piece of p*ss.
I certainly dont remember 4 off and lots of stay put as there is an incident on for 18 hrs in a sangar. officers and seniors always had it a tad easier there as there would only be one command brick per patrol. so ion a 3 day urban patrol cycle its 12 on and 12 off for them and woe betide if you nod off in his briefing. yes they get watchkeeper duties but thats split with Coy 2 i/c etc and the lads are either in sangaers or on fatigues or red 1 (2 mins ntm) to red 3 (2 hours ish).
Must be rough earning your salary!
In COP we had 40 mins ntm for 2 years apart from leave and even our official xmas standown was binned for a job. 4 months in Kellys Garden at 20 mins NTM! What 2 can limit when therss spirits in the mess! TFS!
 
#18
stop fcuking whining i was recently on 24/7 call-out supporting an Ex for 2 months pri to deploying on tour...

and there's worse examples than that than that out there...get over it...

i believe its called the X factor...not the answer you want, but balance it off against all of those sports afternoons, late-starts and weekends that you have off...

how many LSSA days have they accrued in the last 12 months?
 
#19
I am afraid that when you take the shilling you sell your soul. I am simply amazed that you wanted to use this forum for a gripe. Sort it out locally and make it go away. Part of the job spec and what you signed up for was to go the extra mile. Do you duties and be a beancounter and save the money whilst you are so are so rudely interupted from your domestic duties. Perhaps a nice wee job in the Shabby National Building Society as a teller is more your calling ? Regular hours and no hassle and a free uniform. Try it loser
 
#20
After a long time being on immedaite notice to answer my mobile phone, I am now able to deal with any situation, any time of day psised or sober. Fact is matey that thats what Officers do. If you find it difficult, remember how difficult it was and never allow personnel under your command to suffer the same hardship.

Its a hard knock life!
 
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