Is this really a valid excuse not to serve?

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by HantsTiger, Oct 9, 2004.

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  1. Obviously not mentioning names, but there is a muslim lad in a mate's TA unit who is preparing to go to iraq who is saying he won't go because he has to take arms against fellow muslims. What is more, he has apparently said that he would rather see one of our boys drop than raise a rifle to a fellow muslim. :twisted:
    I have every respect for muslims and their religion but this is ridiculous
  2. Thats almost as bad as saying I refuse to raise arms against a fellow christian...Im afraid that if you take the wage you have to take the crap that comes with it.

    In this case if he contiues to refuse then he should be discharged. He may well be under pressure from family and friends, which should be dealt with by his CO.
  3. NO !


  4. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    He should be discharged, but with the proviso that he pays back all earnings and bounty so far received.

    Did he not take an oath on entering service ? Or does that only count for others ?

    Is this receiving money under false pretences ?
  5. What I find odd is that Muslims are quite happy to kill each other except when they might stand a chance of improving the lot of other muslims :roll: .
    It's alright to kill one another over petty matters of "honour" (practically mandatory if the victim is female) or to steal something or for money or to kill dozens if there is a faint chance of killing a Westerner or two or maybe a Jew. However ask them to do anything that might have a constructive outcome, regardless of how the situation arose (it's too late to whine about the causes of the war), and they suddenly develop cold feet and a feeling of "Muslim Brotherhood". That's hypocrisy beyond Bible Belt Christian proportions.
  6. ask him about the iran/iraq war then explain that some muslims seem to have no troube killing one another. :lol:. whatabout afganistian,indonisia etc etc muslims just as good at killing one another as westerners .
    or b kick the coward out
  7. Jail Him
  8. His excuse for not wanting to fight fellow muslims is a bit weak. Muslims fight muslims and christians fight christians.... then add the fact that he's in the medical services and won't be fighting, but providing christians, jews and muslims with medical care, and any excuse he did have falls to the ground.

    It seems the man didn't want to get himself in any danger, went awol and thought up some pathetic excuses once caught.

    The man's a coward... full stop.
  9. I doubt it's cowardice: more likely he just doesn't fancy going and/or fancies some attention and wants to be a bit of a hero to his Muslim mates. He should either apply for exemption on conscientious grounds, which he's entitled to do, but which should mean he gets discharged as well, or he should do as he is fecking well told. Perhaps if he does apply for conscientious exemption, he should be put onto non-combatant duties, like cleaning out latrines?
  10. Firstly he was a reservist called up for Telic, so he could have had a million and one different excuses not to actually serve.

    Secondly, he never made his objections on religious grounds known until after he had gone awol and been picked up by the monkeys. He had plenty of chance to make his feelings known before deserting (that's what it is during wartime after all!), but only came out with it after the event. Probably prompted by family or friends as a way to get off lightly, which worked in the end didn't it.

    Lastly, and as far as I can see, the lynch-pin to the whole subject. He was in the RAF medical services, and as such a non-combatant anyway. In fact, as an RAF medic he would have most likley not left an RAF base in Kuwait until everything was over an would have been so far back he would have had to send his laundry forward!

    I stand by my opinion that the 'man' is a coward and is only seeking publicity in an effort to dig himself out of a hole he dug himself and in an effort to earn some compensation.

    The thing is, he was charged with being awol, which he was, not for anything else to with the reason for going awol, even if thought up after the effect. How you are supposed to get compensation for being charged with something you admit to doing I don't know. So not only a coward, guilty of going awol and let off lightly.

    No sympathy for the bloke or anyone like him.
  11. I think you are mixing this TA case with the RAF Medical Reservist going AWOL!

    Bit late to develop a conscience if you ask me. Post him to the Falklands on Restriction of Privileges for Double/Treble the Op Telic Time with NO PAY followed by discharge, and that goes for anyone regardless of Race or Creed who refuses to go.

    You were shot for less in WWI and jailed in WWII
  12. Yes, seems I got the two confused. Still, my oppinion is the same anyway.

    What's the point joining the TA, taking the money and the training that can help you in your civvy life and then refuse to soldier on religious grounds?

    Discharge him and use it to publicise the fact that 'yes' we do want more ethnic minorities in the TA, but 'no' not at any cost and they have to be ready to do the job.
  13. I agree. A serving TA soldier can hardly claim that when he/she joined there was no question of having to fight other Muslims. TA were mobilised as long as 14 yrs ago for GW1, and more recently for Bosnia and Kosovo.

    My only doubt about this thread is that it is about "a muslim lad in a mate's TA unit" who has "apparently" said this and that. OK we are the Army Rumour Service, but perhaps we need to remind ourselves that we are only discussing a hypothetical situation. It might be better to respect those (Muslim or non-Muslim) comrades who have religious, moral or political doubts about Iraq but are still prepared to do their duty.
  14. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Well said that man.
  15. It seems to me that the overarching problem which applies to any case of conscientious objection now is that our forces are 'all volunteer' and consequently anybody who joins is voluntarily accepting an obligation - embodied in their oath - to do what the feck they are told. I can understand that a recalled reservist may have changed their views, and I would be sympathetic to a claim of conscientious objection from one, but serving regulars and TA should really be expected to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

    For me, the bottom line is that I really don't want to work with unenthusiastic soldiers - particularly when they might be standing behind me in a firefight :? - and I would prefer to be rid of them rather than taking any risks... but there shouldn't be a problem with putting 'conchies' in non-combatant roles, thus freeing up others to take their place.