Is this a Retention deal for you?

[Lifeboat21]

If I remember correctly, the 5 year point had the highest numbers.

Depends on capbadge I believe. Most seem to drop out at 5-8 years, last time I was told about it, with technical trades being at the top end (why not sign off once you have a load of supervisory experience and civie quals in some cases?)

Although the 12 year Short Engagement contracts have only been running out over the last year or so. Not sure how many are being converted into Full Engagement, so that could change things.

 

[stacker1]

Depends on capbadge I believe. Most seem to drop out at 5-8 years, last time I was told about it, with technical trades being at the top end (why not sign off once you have a load of supervisory experience and civie quals in some cases?)

Although the 12 year Short Engagement contracts have only been running out over the last year or so. Not sure how many are being converted into Full Engagement, so that could change things.

The RLC gobbed off about binning anyone at their 12 year point if they werent a full screw or above, they changed their mind when they realised how shit the manning stats would be and allowed biff toms to stay in at that point.

 

[olafthered]

Cash will still probably rule, leave maybe if someone has a job lined up.
Education just sounds like a perk that some individuals want because it suits them, not because its a decent reward.
The army already has a large amount of education initiatives and funding, does it really need one at the end of your career for the benefit of the few? There are so many different quals from so many different organisations and there probably arent a big number who do their 22 years (and an even smaller number of those who want a qual) so I doubt the discounts will be massive.

Yep, no disagreeing that cash is likely to be favourite.

However a range of options means a retention bonus you can tailor to your needd at the time. In and of itself, retention positive.

 

[stacker1]

Yep, no disagreeing that cash is likely to be favourite.

However a range of options means a retention bonus you can tailor to your needd at the time. In and of itself, retention positive.

It seems a bit to cumbersome to cater for all. Even education has multiple options with multiple organisations.
Give them cash and they can spend it on any option that they wish.

 

[Portree Kid]

I think we should follow something like the US model. Stay in 12 years and we'll pay for college/vocational training, stay in 20 we'll pay for university.

Or revert back to AFPS 75 and walk out with a full pension after 22.

Not everyone wants to go to university.

A full pension at the age of 40 gives you much more freedom to do what ever you want to do.

 

[bob231]

Or revert back to AFPS 75 and walk out with a full pension after 22.

Not everyone wants to go to university.

A full pension at the age of 40 gives you much more freedom to do what ever you want to do.

It's also appallingly expensive, which is why it got ditched!

It's effectively a commitment to continue paying an individual for life, and may well mean more years of pension payments than years of service...

 

[Gout Man]

The Wavell Room is a forum for self publicist officers, throwing out WAGIS, having never spoken to an actual junior rank (or if they had, ignoring their views as a minority) to show, other such like minded individuals, read senior reporting officers, what dynamic forward thinking good eggs they are.

Ensuring that their latest blunderfuck gets adoration on mil twitter. Or when challenged inviting the poster who has the audacity to call the fuckwittery, the emperors new clothes, to consider if Twitter is the right forum for dissent, stating, how about using the defence connect echo chamber, or to write an article themselves.

Other than that, great idea, send a disenfranchised Tom to wooden top land to stag on and be subject to utter bullshit for 6 months to reconsider. May as well send them to MCTC instead, at least they would get some decent military training.

Notwithstanding the above, it’s a fantastic idea

So they haven’t got a “You all Liverpool” or “Manchester United“ thread or indeed a NAAFI Forum?
What about “Sick Jokes” ? Or is that the web site as a whole?

 

[Portree Kid]

It's effectively a commitment to continue paying an individual for life, and may well mean more years of pension payments than years of service...

I know

I'm 2 years off breaking even in terms of yearly payments and years served.

It's great

 

[bob231]

Putting my occifer's hat on, that makes you part of the problem

More seriously, on the RN side, I see the generous pension having a negative impact to retention in a perverse way: we have superannuated WOs who will never leave because they're gold plating their pension, and who have stitched up all the cushy jobs shoreside because they're intimately familiar with the system. It's expensive, it's unhelpful (if you haven't been to sea in 10+ years, how can you realistically have an idea of how the RN functions?) and denies worthwhile promotion opportunities to those below.

Is there anything similar in the army? I'm conscious we man very differently...

 

[Portree Kid]

Putting my occifer's hat on, that makes you part of the problem

I had no input in the rules. I honoured my part of the contract - They are now honouring their part

Is there anything similar in the army? I'm conscious we man very differently...

Under AFPS 75, the only people who could ( as far as I am aware ) Gold Plate their pension were those who went on to become LE Officers and those who went on to LSL. LSL jobs were not bountiful and were pretty hard to come by.

 

[bob231]

Fair point: I think I am conflating a number of separate problems* here. I haven't read up on it sufficiently to give you the comprehensive answer (I am firmly in the AFPS 15 bracket, with a tiny preserved pension under AFPS 05).

Thanks for detailed reply.

*Problem in the sense of a problem to the Forces: often great for the individual! I am somewhat jealous of yours.

 

[Mr_Relaxed]

The RLC gobbed off about binning anyone at their 12 year point if they werent a full screw or above, they changed their mind when they realised how shit the manning stats would be and allowed biff toms to stay in at that point.

It used to be the case that a lot of JNCO and Pte’s at Worthy Down doing their B3 clerks course (pre AGC) were doing that to avoid manning control binning them at the 12 year point.

 

[ExREME.TECH]

AFRS 15 is brilliant if you were already a SNCO, shit for the young kids

 

[Kroneit44]

It seems a bit to cumbersome to cater for all. Even education has multiple options with multiple organisations.
Give them cash and they can spend it on any option that they wish.

If you give cash, the recipient only sees the actual value ie £10K across a load of service leavers could potentially buy £15K worth of education. If you give someone £10K they can only buy £10K worth of anything.

 

[par avion]

Is there anything similar in the army? I'm conscious we man very differently...

Heretic, You will be having an interview without coffee with 1SL and Nick Carter. Didn't they teach you anything at 'Equality and Diversity' training. You were asleep weren't you?

 

[Portree Kid]

Thanks for detailed reply.

*Problem in the sense of a problem to the Forces: often great for the individual! I am somewhat jealous of yours.

* I got your drift.

I know nothing of AFPS 05 / 15 to make any comment on differences over AFPS 75. The only thing I could say is that in my limited experience, changes to pension schemes invariably means worse ( monetary ) terms for the recipient. ( There might be an odd exception to the rule kicking about )

 

[Kroneit44]

* I got your drift.

I know nothing of AFPS 05 / 15 to make any comment on differences over AFPS 75. The only thing I could say is that in my limited experience, changes to pension schemes invariably means worse ( monetary ) terms for the recipient. ( There might be an odd exception to the rule kicking about )

'05 was just more appropriate for modern living ie same volume of pot, different benefits structure. '15 is just a cost reduction exercise.

 

[stacker1]

If you give cash, the recipient only sees the actual value ie £10K across a load of service leavers could potentially buy £15K worth of education. If you give someone £10K they can only buy £10K worth of anything.

You have just made that figure up of potentially 15k, how many people leave at their 22 year point, now work out how many want a qualification now work out how many different qualifications and organisations there are. You are extremely unlikely to get a 33% discount, or any discount for that matter. The numbers are to small.

 

[Kroneit44]

You have just made that figure up of potentially 15k, how many people leave at their 22 year point, now work out how many want a qualification now work out how many different qualifications and organisations there are. You are extremely unlikely to get a 33% discount, or any discount for that matter. The numbers are to small.

1. hence the word "potentially". In my limited experience of outsourcing training, the more people you book for the cheaper it is. Buying power is a real thing.
2. We don't need to retain people at 22 years. We need to fill the gaps, wherever they are. I would suggest the a serviceman at 5-8 years is not dripping in career changing qualifications.

 

[Portree Kid]

2. We don't need to retain people at 22 years.

Perhaps we do not need to retain people after 22 years. The question should really be, why don't we, except in very limited circumstances.

Why do we scrap people at 40 years of age, when they have so much experience and still have so much to offer ?

Some people would possibly like to stay past 40, others would not.

I was offered a 2 year extension ( by the CO ) I was fully de-kitted and 3 days before I drove out the gate for the last time. Bit of a stunned reaction when it was politely turned down.

Well Sir '' IMO, that is a conversion that should have happened 12 - 18 months ago, not 3 days before I drive out the gate for the last time and all my ducks are lined up for a life in civvy street ''

ETA this thread

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/british-army-seeking-56-year-old-re-recruits.297497/

Kick them out at 40 ( after 22 years ) and then look for re-enlisters up to the age of 56 ?

I'm sure there is method in the madness.