Is this a Retention deal for you?

[retread2]

Back in late 90s.
2 Dental Officers of similar age and stage in career. (in fact both on same PQO course)
Both in BAOR. Both coming to time of posting, both asked by CO where they would like to go.
Capt W. I would like to be posted to South of England, My mother lives near Gatwick and is widowed and unwell.
FF. I would like to remain in BAOR, really quite enjoy it here.

Few weeks go by, posting orders come out.
Capt W is to remain in BAOR
FF to Chatham.

Both speak to CO and to Postings lot, pointing out previous conversations and preferences..
Both told it is not possible to change such postings.

Capt W, Immediately signed off and spent most of remaining time back and forth on compassionate leave.
FF, Not happy but stayed on, when told that once again next posting would be South of England, declined to remain as my time was up.

I would like to think the modern Army is a little more flexible but somehow I doubt it.

I had no idea that RADC officers in the '90s were posted by the same person who did Int Corps ORs in 1973. My first three choices on imminent escape from Ashford were Far East. Middle East, Near East. Where was I sent? Barnard Castle. Oh well.

 

[mechanicalhorsetrough]

Back in late 90s.
2 Dental Officers of similar age and stage in career. (in fact both on same PQO course)
Both in BAOR. Both coming to time of posting, both asked by CO where they would like to go.
Capt W. I would like to be posted to South of England, My mother lives near Gatwick and is widowed and unwell.
FF. I would like to remain in BAOR, really quite enjoy it here.

Few weeks go by, posting orders come out.
Capt W is to remain in BAOR
FF to Chatham.

Both speak to CO and to Postings lot, pointing out previous conversations and preferences..
Both told it is not possible to change such postings.

Capt W, Immediately signed off and spent most of remaining time back and forth on compassionate leave.
FF, Not happy but stayed on, when told that once again next posting would be South of England, declined to remain as my time was up.

I would like to think the modern Army is a little more flexible but somehow I doubt it.

I had a similar experience as a Sergeant, I was in Canada as permanent staff ( yes I know I was privileged to have been posted there in the first place) But when my time came to an end I requested a posting to BAOR, I loved Germany, plus at the time there was no pets for passports scheme between UK & Canada, but there was between Germany & Canada and UK and Germany. We had our dog, Barney our black labrador in Canada with us, so I hoped we could take him straight into Germany with no quarantine, then after the Germany posting, if we ended up back in UK, he could travel back with us and no quarantine again. A colleague, a fellow sergeant, wanted UK, specifically the south coast.
Posting orders came in, he to Paderborn, me to Thorny Island! No problem, can we swap? Nope, you’ve had your sunshine posting Sgt MH, you will return to UK! Gutted!
Barney went in to quarantine, and even though we visited him and they were extremely good with him, he never got over 6 months in solitary, and I never quite forgave the Army, I never realised Germany was considered a sunshine posting.

 

[stacker1]

There's a little bit more to retention than "CO's doing better".

Of course there is, Einstein, but a part of it, is that the bloke in charge of a regiment isn't a bellend.

 

[Kroneit44]

Of there is, Einstein, but a part of it, is that the bloke in charge of a regiment isn't a bellend.

We’re all part of it FFS. If you have a bellend of an RSM it doesn’t help does it. Unless you can invent some sort of bellend test or is that actually your suggestion to resolve retention issues?

 

[stacker1]

We’re all part of it FFS. If you have a bellend of an RSM it doesn’t help does it. Unless you can invent some sort of bellend test or is that actually your suggestion to resolve retention issues?

The CO is the boss of the regiment the buck stops with him what happens if his regiment, if he's allowing people in his regiment to be morale Dysons then its his job to do something about it.
I know that would sound strange to you because, you would just rather not rock the boat and just take your monthly pay.

 

[Portree Kid]

I must have a completely different concept of career structure then. R Sigs has a supervisory career structure and so do most of the other Corps. Can you expand on what you mean?

Yes.

The Royal Signals is not the British Army.

Nobody ever leave the RS as a Pte or Lcpl ? Or did the Corps have a never ending stream of 22 year Ptes and Lcpl's ?

Did the RS not have Manning Control Points - Where people could be hoofed for not achieving certain objectives ?

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. Even the Infantry had a career structure. It went from Pte to WO1 and some even went on to become LE Officers. Not many made the grade to go from Pte to WO 1, some could not make that bracket, some were never in that bracket. Long term sick got managed out the door, and Ptes in the 5 - 8 year bracket new they had reached their limit and left ( hence the retention issue )

To put it simply, not everyone in the British Army gets on the career ladder / structure. They are just not good enough, or don't put the effort in.

I'm fully aware that the RS might operate in a different manner from the Infantry, but both parts go towards making up the British Army.

 

[Kroneit44]

The CO is the boss of the regiment the buck stops with him what happens if his regiment, if he's allowing people in his regiment to be morale Dysons then its his job to do something about it.
I know that would sound strange to you because, you would just rather not rock the boat and just take your monthly pay.

Ah Major Thomas, the NTT rate in your Sqn is too high, if you don't fix it you're sacked.
Ah SSM, the NTT rate in the Sqn is too high, what's going on?
and so on and so on.
Unless there's malpractice you can't move people on. And if there is, there needs to be an investigation, and so on. Improving moral of a unit is significantly harder than breaking it. Personally I'd focus on the 2IC, change how they're reported on so they can have difficult conversations without fear of reprisal.

 

[Kroneit44]

Yes.

The Royal Signals is not the British Army.

Nobody ever leave the RS as a Pte or Lcpl ? Or did the Corps have a never ending stream of 22 year Ptes and Lcpl's ?

Did the RS not have Manning Control Points - Where people could be hoofed for not achieving certain objectives ?

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. Even the Infantry had a career structure. It went from Pte to WO1 and some even went on to become LE Officers. Not many made the grade to go from Pte to WO 1, some could not make that bracket, some were never in that bracket. Long term sick got managed out the door, and Ptes in the 5 - 8 year bracket new they had reached their limit and left ( hence the retention issue )

To put it simply, not everyone in the British Army gets on the career ladder / structure. They are just not good enough, or don't put the effort in.

I'm fully aware that the RS might operate in a different manner from the Infantry, but both parts go towards making up the British Army.

I'm not understanding your point, are you saying there's no career structure for those that don't promote? I don't see that as a problem to be honest, or a detrimental impact on retention.

 

[Berlin_104s]

Ah Major Thomas, the NTT rate in your Sqn is too high, if you don't fix it you're sacked.
Ah SSM, the NTT rate in the Sqn is too high, what's going on?
and so on and so on.
Unless there's malpractice you can't move people on. And if there is, there needs to be an investigation, and so on. Improving moral of a unit is significantly harder than breaking it. Personally I'd focus on the 2IC, change how they're reported on so they can have difficult conversations without fear of reprisal.

I agree with you that it is very hard to sack people in the example you have given. But surely, it should be a discussion point in Maj Thomas's mid-year appraisal with the CO and then raised in his/her subsequent OJAR if its still a problem? Trouble is, there are very few metrics by which individuals at RD can be measured against, but the amount of NTT is one of them.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Portree Kid]

I'm not understanding your point,

I'll rephrase that for you.

'' You don't want to understand my point ''

Even a monkey got my point.

Apologies for the use of the word monkey @Berlin_104s

 

[Berlin_104s]

I'll rephrase that for you.

'' You don't want to understand my point ''

Even a monkey got my point.

Apologies for the use of the word monkey @Berlin_104s

No offence taken, it's how I've always self-identified as I spent so much of my career outside of the RMP orbit!!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Portree Kid]

I agree with you that it is very hard to sack people in the example you have given.

I'm not sure that that is true.

PM me if you want the details

 

[Kroneit44]

I'll rephrase that for you.

'' You don't want to understand my point ''

Even a monkey got my point.

Apologies for the use of the word monkey @Berlin_104s

I'm not claiming that you haven't explained it well, I'm just not tuned into what your point is. I would be grateful if you janet and johned for my consumption.

 

[stacker1]

Ah Major Thomas, the NTT rate in your Sqn is too high, if you don't fix it you're sacked.
Ah SSM, the NTT rate in the Sqn is too high, what's going on?
and so on and so on.
Unless there's malpractice you can't move people on. And if there is, there needs to be an investigation, and so on. Improving moral of a unit is significantly harder than breaking it. Personally I'd focus on the 2IC, change how they're reported on so they can have difficult conversations without fear of reprisal.

Urrrr yeah that is exactly what you do, I know that might seem alien to you because a bit of leadership is beyond your grasp.
Some COs actually take an interest in their subordinates and make life better for them by questions the CoC if they are doing something stupid.
You don't have to move people on and if they are a ****, you shouldn't (although I acknowledge that would be the easy option for you because you don't like confrontation).
You either train them to be a better soldier or you ensure their career doesn't go any further.
Or be like you and keep quiet so long as they pay you.

 

[Kroneit44]

I agree with you that it is very hard to sack people in the example you have given. But surely, it should be a discussion point in Maj Thomas's mid-year appraisal with the CO and then raised in his/her subsequent OJAR if its still a problem? Trouble is, there are very few metrics by which individuals at RD can be measured against, but the amount of NTT is one of them.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Loads NTT from my current place but generally because they don't want to move on, in fact they just turn up to work in civvies now. Moral is good from what I can tell, and we have nil SC in train. So you'd need to think carefully about what you add to the NTT metric. It goes back to the 360 reporting piece again, which stops people seeking advice from an echo chamber...hopefully.

 

[Kroneit44]

Urrrr yeah that is exactly what you do, I know that might seem alien to you because a bit of leadership is beyond your grasp.
Some COs actually take an interest in their subordinates and make life better for them by questions the CoC if they are doing something stupid.
You don't have to move people on and if they are a ****, you shouldn't (although I acknowledge that would be the easy option for you because you don't like confrontation).
You either train them to be a better soldier or you ensure their career doesn't go any further.
Or be like you and keep quiet so long as they pay you.

The point is how do you measure moral, @Berlin_104s stated rightly that NTT should be part of it but how do you fairly measure the rest of it?

 

[Portree Kid]

I'm not claiming that you haven't explained it well, I'm just not tuned into what your point is. I would be grateful if you janet and johned for my consumption.

No problem

By the second, I meant the view that the Army/RN/RAF exist to provide a career structure for officers.

The same could be said for ORs.

Not for Infantry OR's and I suspect others also.

 

[Kroneit44]

No problem
Not for Infantry OR's and I suspect others also.

I think the technical corps have a sewn up structure, not really sighted on the adminners

 

[stacker1]

The point is how do you measure moral, @Berlin_104s stated rightly that NTT should be part of it but how do you fairly measure the rest of it?

Generally if your Troops aren't signing off as soon as they can, its an indication that you are doing something right.

 

[Portree Kid]

I think the technical corps have a sewn up structure,

Technical Corps do not make up the whole of the British Army, another point I made.

Most of the British Army will have a sewn up structure.

That does not mean that every member of the British Army has the drive, determination or capability to utilize that structure.