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Is this a Retention deal for you?

Anyway, back to the original point, cash for all for retention isn't viable, what else have you got?

Neither is education for the very few,

So back to the cheap option of not ******* people around.
 
...Join the Army, you don't get fucked around....can't see us ever reaching that nirvana. So cash isn't a goer, nor is not getting fucked about, anything else?

You cant see it because you are institutionalised.

But it shows your management and leadership skills.
 

bob231

War Hero
I see where stacker's coming from on this one. It's not a recruitment incentive, it's an antidote to a retention disincentive. Plan in advance, manage expectations, do your job properly and - crucially - hold people to account for ******* the lads around. From an RN perspective, that especially involves hammering junior officers for getting it wrong or messing people around because they haven't done their homework (the Army may vary).

Further up the tree, don't randomly retask units at minimal notice because the system is running red hot all the time. Build in slack to programmes and call it "resilience"; use it to mitigate against things going wrong.

Prioritise range days, cross-country driving, interesting exercises, the sort of thing that's half interesting and gets minds away from "I'm sitting in barracks while my mates are having fun." Ruin people for being idle in arranging these.


The civilianisation push will only get worse the more expensive we get. There's an argument you could make things better by slightly _reducing_ pay across the board to increase headcount
 
I see where stacker's coming from on this one. It's not a recruitment incentive, it's an antidote to a retention disincentive. Plan in advance, manage expectations, do your job properly and - crucially - hold people to account for ******* the lads around. From an RN perspective, that especially involves hammering junior officers for getting it wrong or messing people around because they haven't done their homework (the Army may vary).

Further up the tree, don't randomly retask units at minimal notice because the system is running red hot all the time. Build in slack to programmes and call it "resilience"; use it to mitigate against things going wrong.

Prioritise range days, cross-country driving, interesting exercises, the sort of thing that's half interesting and gets minds away from "I'm sitting in barracks while my mates are having fun." Ruin people for being idle in arranging these.


The civilianisation push will only get worse the more expensive we get. There's an argument you could make things better by slightly _reducing_ pay across the board to increase headcount
Who draws up the list of “what being messed about is”? It’s all a bit subjective eg how do you prioritise interesting exercises over those that need to be done as a shake out or to prove a capability? As for holding people to account a dramatic change in appraisal generation would be required to get that information into the system. It’s all a bit pipe dreamy.
 
You cant see it because you are institutionalised.

But it shows your management and leadership skills.
One thing I’m not is institutionalised but I would be the first to admit my leadership and management skills could be greatly improved. What I do know is throwing cash at servicemen across the board isn’t going to happen, neither is a cessation of being messed around. Got any better suggestions?
 
One thing I’m not is institutionalised but I would be the first to admit my leadership and management skills could be greatly improved. What I do know is throwing cash at servicemen across the board isn’t going to happen, neither is a cessation of being messed around. Got any better suggestions?
Norman Schwarzkopf said in his autobiography that when he took over as commander of a US Mech or Armoured Div in Germany in the eighties, soon after he got there he was driving in the local area during the weekend with his familly when he came across a US Infantry Squad trudging along in the rain looking dejected. He asked them what they were doing as it was the weekend. They told him that their CO had ordered that the battallion was going to work the weekends as he wanted them (him) to get high marks at the next evaluation.

Norman was furious and took details of their unit. Monday morning their CO was tapping the boards in front of Storming Norman and was chewed out. Norm sent out a direction/direct order that no unit was to work weekends without his express permission and that they would need a very good reason before it was granted.

Perhaps some of our own senior officers could follow his example.
 
One thing I’m not is institutionalised but I would be the first to admit my leadership and management skills could be greatly improved. What I do know is throwing cash at servicemen across the board isn’t going to happen, neither is a cessation of being messed around. Got any better suggestions?
Why isn't a cessation of being messed around likely?
Great attitude.
 
Norman Schwarzkopf said in his autobiography that when he took over as commander of a US Mech or Armoured Div in Germany in the eighties, soon after he got there he was driving in the local area during the weekend with his familly when he came across a US Infantry Squad trudging along in the rain looking dejected. He asked them what they were doing as it was the weekend. They told him that their CO had ordered that the battallion was going to work the weekends as he wanted them (him) to get high marks at the next evaluation.

Norman was furious and took details of their unit. Monday morning their CO was tapping the boards in front of Storming Norman and was chewed out. Norm sent out a direction/direct order that no unit was to work weekends without his express permission and that they would need a very good reason before it was granted.

Perhaps some of our own senior officers could follow his example.
Brilliant, probably resulted in the lads working late every evening afterwards though.
 
Norman Schwarzkopf said in his autobiography that when he took over as commander of a US Mech or Armoured Div in Germany in the eighties, soon after he got there he was driving in the local area during the weekend with his familly when he came across a US Infantry Squad trudging along in the rain looking dejected. He asked them what they were doing as it was the weekend. They told him that their CO had ordered that the battallion was going to work the weekends as he wanted them (him) to get high marks at the next evaluation.

Norman was furious and took details of their unit. Monday morning their CO was tapping the boards in front of Storming Norman and was chewed out. Norm sent out a direction/direct order that no unit was to work weekends without his express permission and that they would need a very good reason before it was granted.

Perhaps some of our own senior officers could follow his example.

Why bother? Apparently morale is over rated anyway.
 
Brilliant, probably resulted in the lads working late every evening afterwards though.
You have a ton of excuses to justify ******* over soldiers don't you?
 
Because it's subjective. Ironing your uniform seems common sense in the Army, it's almost an offence in the other Services.
Why does it seem to be common sense? If there is a good reason then keep doing it, if there isn't stop doing it.
Or just keep doing things the way you always have because change involved a bit of work, clearly almost 30 years of shit recruitment and retention figures is okay.
 
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What part of my response is an excuse?
Because you said they work in the evenings due to a senior officer trying to make life better for his soldiers.
 
Why does it seem commonly sense? If there is a good reason then keep doing it, if there isn't stop doing it.
Or just keep doing things the way you always have because change involved a bit of work, clearly almost 30 years of shit recruitment and retention figures is okay.
What happens if there's a good reason but you don't know it or worse still don't agree with it?
 
Because you said they work in the evenings due to a senior officer trying to make life better for his soldiers.
That's probably what happened as a result of the CO losing his ability to work weekends in the '80s. There might have been a perfectly valid reason for the activity. Ask any Private what their CO is thinking when they're doing something they don't enjoy and the response isn't going to be positive is it?
 
What happens if there's a good reason but you don't know it or worse still don't agree with it?
Then tell people the reason. Or alternatively just keep ******* people about under the guise that they can't see the big picture.
 
That's probably what happened as a result of the CO losing his ability to work weekends in the '80s. There might have been a perfectly valid reason for the activity. Ask any Private what their CO is thinking when they're doing something they don't enjoy and the response isn't going to be positive is it?
According to that story the COs didn't lose their ability to work weekends, they just needed to justify it for military reasons.
Naturally brave British COs with their oodles of moral courage would have no problem telling their superiors why their soldiers are working weekends if they had a valid reason for doing so.
 
According to that story the COs didn't lose their ability to work weekends, they just needed to justify it for military reasons.
Naturally brave British COs with their oodles of moral courage would have no problem telling their superiors why their soldiers are working weekends if they had a valid reason for doing so.
Ask 2* permission to work weekends (assuming that you can find a 1* to ask the question) or work late without question, what do you think is going to happen? I think you're saying that COs should be accountable for their actions, but in reality it is very difficult to implement, though 360 reporting would be a good start.
 

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