Is this a Retention deal for you?

[Kroneit44]

Perhaps we do not need to retain people after 22 years. The question should really be, why don't we, except in very limited circumstances.

Why do we scrap people at 40 years of age, when they have so much experience and still have so much to offer ?

Some people would possibly like to stay past 40, others would not.

I was offered a 2 year extension ( by the CO ) I was fully de-kitted and 3 days before I drove out the gate for the last time. Bit of a stunned reaction when it was politely turned down.

Well Sir '' IMO, that is a conversion that should have happened 12 - 18 months ago, not 3 days before I drive out the gate for the last time and all my ducks are lined up for a life in civvy street ''

ETA this thread

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/british-army-seeking-56-year-old-re-recruits.297497/

Kick them out at 40 ( after 22 years ) and then look for re-enlisters up to the age of 56 ?

I'm sure there is method in the madness.

I'll rephrase that then. We don't need to throw money at people to retain after 22yrs. It's a generalist statement, and I know that we throw money at niche individuals to keep them in after 22.

 

[Portree Kid]

I'll rephrase that then. We don't need to throw money at people to retain after 22yrs.

I never mentioned throwing money at anyone.

We bin people after 22 years ( some at 40 years of age ) and then along comes this

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/british-army-seeking-56-year-old-re-recruits.297497/

Can you not see the madness in binning 40 year olds ( after 22 ) whilst trying to re-recruit people up to the age of 56 ?

and I know that we throw money at niche individuals to keep them in after 22.

Nothing wrong with that - If they are truly niche individuals.

 

[alfred_the_great]

Because we are a bottom fed, upwards flowing organisation that needs people to leave out of the top to make way for those coming up behind.

We need people to leave after 22 years, because otherwise no-one would ever get promoted. Would you want to spend 10+ years as an OR1 or 2 in the knowledge that maybe, in 30+ years, you might make it to OR7 or 8?

 

[stacker1]

1. hence the word "potentially". In my limited experience of outsourcing training, the more people you book for the cheaper it is. Buying power is a real thing.
2. We don't need to retain people at 22 years. We need to fill the gaps, wherever they are. I would suggest the a serviceman at 5-8 years is not dripping in career changing qualifications.

Potentially you could buy everyone a car and get a discount, potentially you can do anything.

When the army outsources training, it generally goes to one organization and says it wants x amount of the same qualification, what kind of discount are you offering? As I said there are that few leaving at their 22, who want a qualification, from the vast amount of organizations offering them, you are highly unlikely to get a group discount.

Soldiers are pulling the pin at around the 4 to 8 year point because mainly they think the army is ****, they always have done for the last 30 years. The difference today as opposed to 30 years ago is that they don't have to listen to institutionalized SNCOs/Officers who have never worked in civvie street who are telling them how hard it is in civvie street, in reality its maybe hard for the mong childs but anyone with a bit of commonsense does well after they leave.

 

[Portree Kid]

Because we are a bottom fed, upwards flowing organisation that needs people to leave out of the top to make way for those coming up behind.

Yes alfred, I am aware of how the Army works.

We need people to leave after 22 years, because otherwise no-one would ever get promoted.

They can be moved sideways and out of the promotion stream.

There is a multitude of jobs these guys could do.

Would you want to spend 10+ years as an OR1 or 2 in the knowledge that maybe, in 30+ years, you might make it to OR7 or 8?

What is a 56 year old re-enlister going to go in as ?

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/british-army-seeking-56-year-old-re-recruits.297497/

Or is an OR 8 who has been out 15 years going to come back in as an OR 8 ?

 

[stacker1]

Because we are a bottom fed, upwards flowing organisation that needs people to leave out of the top to make way for those coming up behind.

We need people to leave after 22 years, because otherwise no-one would ever get promoted. Would you want to spend 10+ years as an OR1 or 2 in the knowledge that maybe, in 30+ years, you might make it to OR7 or 8?

The RAF seem to have SACs who have served on average more time than the Armys Cpls. But then they appear to treat them better.
In civvie street not everyone gets promoted, some people are happy with what they have.

 

[Berlin_104s]

Heretic, You will be having an interview without coffee with 1SL and Nick Carter. Didn't they teach you anything at 'Equality and Diversity' training. You were asleep weren't you?

We sent over a 'Manning' diagram to the Customer (RN) a few months ago, got returned on the volley! Nothing wrong with the structure and content, just the naming terminology.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[bob231]

At the risk of sounding cynical, incorrect nomenclature is definitely the RN's biggest problem wrt workforce/personnel/whatever it is meant to be called today.

 

[Queensman]

Because we are a bottom fed, upwards flowing organisation that needs people to leave out of the top to make way for those coming up behind.

We need people to leave after 22 years, because otherwise no-one would ever get promoted. Would you want to spend 10+ years as an OR1 or 2 in the knowledge that maybe, in 30+ years, you might make it to OR7 or 8?

There used to be a thing called the 'Special List'. Lt Cols who were not going any further up the ladder were placed on it - once on the SL they did SO2 type jobs, and I think took either a cut in pay or accepted that they wouldn't get a future 'rise'(?) but kept their rank. This kept all the slightly unglamorous yet pretty vital mundane desks filled whilst allowing the thrusters to carry on on their meteoric rise to stardom.

 

[Kroneit44]

Potentially you could buy everyone a car and get a discount, potentially you can do anything.

When the army outsources training, it generally goes to one organization and says it wants x amount of the same qualification, what kind of discount are you offering? As I said there are that few leaving at their 22, who want a qualification, from the vast amount of organizations offering them, you are highly unlikely to get a group discount.

Soldiers are pulling the pin at around the 4 to 8 year point because mainly they think the army is ****, they always have done for the last 30 years. The difference today as opposed to 30 years ago is that they don't have to listen to institutionalized SNCOs/Officers who have never worked in civvie street who are telling them how hard it is in civvie street, in reality its maybe hard for the mong childs but anyone with a bit of commonsense does well after they leave.

You’re not going to change the perception of the Army being shit as the commitments are likely to change any time soon. The US servicemen I spoke to rate their post service education programme. I’m not on about outsourcing training just choosing the educational establishments you throw money at. I would add anything that gives the impression of being looked after could help both recruiting and retention.

 

[stacker1]

You’re not going to change the perception of the Army being shit as the commitments are likely to change any time soon. The US servicemen I spoke to rate their post service education programme. I’m not on about outsourcing training just choosing the educational establishments you throw money at. I would add anything that gives the impression of being looked after could help both recruiting and retention.

Maybe if seniors/officer werent such *******, the army might not be so shit.
FYB get tens of thousands of views a week thanks to the bellendry of the CoC.

Ask the Americans if they would rather have a pay rise.

Which courses and which educational establishments do you think are going to offer a massive discount to a small amount of people? Probably none, so give the blokes money.

The British army was still making its soldiers attend group PT in the middle of a covid pandemic, I think things like that have more of detrimental effect of recruiting and retention than the bribe of education.

 

[Kroneit44]

Maybe if seniors/officer werent such *******, the army might not be so shit.
FYB get tens of thousands of views a week thanks to the bellendry of the CoC.

Ask the Americans if they would rather have a pay rise.

Which courses and which educational establishments do you think are going to offer a massive discount to a small amount of people? Probably none, so give the blokes money.

The British army was still making its soldiers attend group PT in the middle of a covid pandemic, I think things like that have more of detrimental effect of recruiting and retention than the bribe of education.

No one is going to argue against a pay rise so it’s not a valid point to use. How does a bribe of education differ from a cash based bribe? The British Army wasn’t making soldiers do group PT. I know that because my unit wasn’t doing PT through various phases of C19 to date.
If they could offer health care that might be better but again a tough sell to the public, not as difficult as cash though.

 

[stacker1]

No one is going to argue against a pay rise so it’s not a valid point to use. How does a bribe of education differ from a cash based bribe? The British Army wasn’t making soldiers do group PT. I know that because my unit wasn’t doing PT through various phases of C19 to date.
If they could offer health care that might be better but again a tough sell to the public, not as difficult as cash though.

If everyone wants a pay rise then give it to them before you think of any other schemes.

It differs because education is only wanted/needed by a far fewer number

Pretty certain FYB had photographic evidence of orders and people on PT to say they were, I contacted my previous unit, they were as well.

Cash can be used for anything, perks like education are for a far fewer number.

 

[Kroneit44]

If everyone wants a pay rise then give it to them before you think of any other schemes.

It differs because education is only wanted/needed by a far fewer number

Pretty certain FYB had photographic evidence of orders and people on PT to say they were, I contacted my previous unit, they were as well.

Cash can be used for anything, perks like education are for a far fewer number.

Give everyone a pay rise, what planet are you on? Pretty certain that PT in my unit isn't on, so "the British Army" isn't doing group PT during a pandemic but some units within the whole of MOD might be (unlikely the RAF or NAVY are).
Cash can be used for anything but the public has got to be willing to give it to you. Just giving money away is a tough sell, there's no tangible value to it.
I'm not sure where you get education being a perk from, it's always struck me as a bit more than that.

 

[stacker1]

Give everyone a pay rise, what planet are you on? Pretty certain that PT in my unit isn't on, so "the British Army" isn't doing group PT during a pandemic but some units within the whole of MOD might be (unlikely the RAF or NAVY are).
Cash can be used for anything but the public has got to be willing to give it to you. Just giving money away is a tough sell, there's no tangible value to it.
I'm not sure where you get education being a perk from, it's always struck me as a bit more than that.

What planet am I on to give people a pay rise that you say the majority want rather than pay for education that a minority want?

Do you even do PT at your unit? You have been on the biff for over 2 decades, I think numerous units doing PT qualifies as the British Army doing PT. The British Army used to do CFTs, just because you have a laminated biff chit exempting you from it, doesnt mean the British Army didnt do it.

You think the public would resent giving the Army cash, but wont resent giving the Army cash to pay for a qualification?

If the army dont need you to have it, then its a perk to get it isnt it?

This seem to just be you wanting something in particular so put forward the idea that the army should pay for it it for everyone, when in reality it would only benefit a small amount of people, but hey thats ok if you are one of them eh?

 

[par avion]

At the risk of sounding cynical, incorrect nomenclature is definitely the RN's biggest problem wrt workforce/personnel/whatever it is meant to be called today.

Hmmmm. I am sure that that Czar Vlad's Russian Navy happily sailing up the Channel is not beset by such problems (though probably a few mechanical ones).

 

[lacrabat]

Yeah Im sure a bunch of doddering old fuckwits who pay lip service to the QRs are really tough guys.

But thanks for confirming your unit was chip shop. They just decided to pick and choose what military laws should apply to them

The Royal Green Jackets had a reputation for being innovative and forward thinking, they simply preempted the British military making being gay legal.
Basically, once again where they led, the rest of the army followed...........

 

[Kroneit44]

This seem to just be you wanting something in particular so put forward the idea that the army should pay for it it for everyone, when in reality it would only benefit a small amount of people, but hey thats ok if you are one of them eh?

Its a bit far down the road to give me a retention bonus isn't it.

 

[stacker1]

Its a bit far down the road to give me a retention bonus isn't it.

No need to pay for your education either.

 

[Kroneit44]

No need to pay for your education either.

You've already paid for it in 2007 thank you. The point is that cash is only used to plug a hole, it isn't a solution. The bonus of education provision is that people like you won't take it up, therefore a few quid is saved once (in my mind) the run out period finishes.