Is the West superior

[Dashing_Chap]

Habeas corpus, trial by jury and equality before the law are the foundation stones of Western civilization.

And they were forged in Britain.

The free world owes its legacy to England, it is unlikely that these ideas would ever occur in the East. In most other countries power is placed in absolute monarchs, tzars and despots.

The United States ideals were inspired by British history and written in English by people of British ancestry, when the French tried something similar they killed everyone.

There is a reason that most English speaking countries which embrace British values are prosperous and free.

It's the same reason that Spanish, Portuguese and most non English speaking countries are corrupt shytholes. They inherited a system of corrupt governance where leaders are above the law and people are not equal.

 

[theoriginalphantom]

Yes

you just had to go on and on when a simple answer would have sufficed.

 

[76mill]

Did somebody just say eat?

Apparently every white man's invention was designed to bring food to the doors of black folk who are seemingly incapable of knocking up some rice and peas...whilst travelling in a jet.

Remind me how the African space race is going to impact on me and mine...

 

[Mike Barton]

Habeas corpus, trial by jury and equality before the law are the foundation stones of Western civilization.

And they were forged in Britain.

The free world owes its legacy to England, it is unlikely that these ideas would ever occur in the East. In most other countries power is placed in absolute monarchs, tzars and despots.

The United States ideals were inspired by British history and written in English by people of British ancestry, when the French tried something similar they killed everyone.

There is a reason that most English speaking countries which embrace British values are prosperous and free.

It's the same reason that Spanish, Portuguese and most non English speaking countries are corrupt shytholes. They inherited a system of corrupt governance where leaders are above the law and people are not equal.

And happily dumped by Britain whenever it was convenient.

 

[Bodenplatte]

Of course we're better - we're British & thus won the lottery of life.

Cecil Rhodes walt

 

[Kinch]

Habeas corpus, trial by jury and equality before the law are the foundation stones of Western civilization.

And they were forged in Britain.

The free world owes its legacy to England, it is unlikely that these ideas would ever occur in the East. In most other countries power is placed in absolute monarchs, tzars and despots.

The United States ideals were inspired by British history and written in English by people of British ancestry, when the French tried something similar they killed

There is a reason that most English speaking countries which embrace British values are prosperous and free.

It's the same reason that Spanish, Portuguese and most non English speaking countries are corrupt shytholes. They inherited a system of corrupt governance where leaders are above the law and people are not equal.

Habaes corpus only exists in UK, Canada, Pakistan and Japan Some Common Law countries such as Singapore, Pakistan, Malaysia and India have abolished trial by jury and juries are not used in all trials in the UK While the foundation stones of western civilization have long been proven to have originated in ancient Greece and Rome. The basis of medical and social standards began in Persia - the Hammerabi code, And Galenic physiology and anatomy led invasive medicine in Greece from the second century AD. Paracelsus, better known as Theophrastis Bombastis Von Honenheim, led the European drive in Switzerland for medical advance in the 15th century. And then came the English......legitimately regarded as the originators of industrial innovation and development.......and they did other things too. But I would argue that they are best remembered for forging steel than much else........and for 1966 (Shhhhh I'm a Jock.....we don't talk about that)

 

[Dashing_Chap]

And happily dumped by Britain whenever it was convenient.

Fair point. It's the invention that counts though.

We also ended slavery world wide and stood up against the far more evil empires of Communism, Nazism and the rising sun so that's gotta go some way to getting even in the grand scheme of things.

Most of the free world would be in concentration camps or gulags right now if it wasn't for British ideals of and the defence of liberty.

 

[Sana]

Fair point. It's the invention that counts though.

We also ended slavery world wide and stood up against the far more evil empires of Communism, Nazism and the rising sun so that's gotta go some way to getting even in the grand scheme of things.

Most of the free world would be in concentration camps or gulags right now if it wasn't for British ideals of and the defence of liberty.

The British empire wasn't innocent but we ended those evil forces and created a better post-war society.

 

[Bodenplatte]

 

[Dashing_Chap]

Habaes corpus only exists in UK, Canada, Pakistan and Japan Some Common Law countries such as Singapore, Pakistan, Malaysia and India have abolished trial by jury and juries are not used in all trials in the UK

It's the invention that counts.

While the foundation stones of western civilization have long been proven to have originatred in ancient Greece and Rome. The basis of medical and social standards began in Persia - the Hammerabi code,

The Hammerabi code was the first legal system and mostly consisted of smashing you wife's head in if she disagreed with you, it's not a touch on Magna Carta. The English invented modern freedom. The Greeks had a radical Democracy and the Americans were influenced by the Roman system so I'll give you that.

And Galenic phtsiology and anatomy led invasive medicine in Greece from the second century AD. Paracelsus, beyter known as Theophrasis Bombastis Von Honenheim, led the European drive for medical advance in the 15th century.

Medical stuff is irrelevant.

And then came the English......legitimately regarded as the originaters of industrual innovation and development.......and they did other things too. But I would argue that they are best remembered for forging steel than much else........and for 1966 (Shhhhh I'm a Jock.....we don't talk about that)

The Industrial Revolution started in Britain but that's also largely irrelevant with regards to ideals of liberty. We also invented Geology, evolution and held the world to account over Physics too but that's another story.

 

[Bodenplatte]

Habaes corpus only exists in UK, Canada, Pakistan and Japan

And in the USA

 

[Kinch]

And in the USA

Not quite. The American version, unlike the British/English, is not a right against unlawful arrest, but only the right to petition a Federal court to be released from custody after such an arrest.

 

[Mike Barton]

It's the invention that counts.




The Hammerabi code was the first legal system and mostly consisted of smashing you wife's head in if she disagreed with you, it's not a touch on Magna Carta. The English invented modern freedom. The Greeks had a radical Democracy and the Americans were influenced by the Roman system so I'll give you that.





Medical stuff is irrelevant.




The Industrial Revolution started in Britain but that's also largely irrelevant with regards to ideals of liberty. We also invented Geology, evolution and held the world to account over Physics too but that's another story.

Personally I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but that would be because like you I come from an Anglo-centric (political, rather than ethnic) background, and like you I was taught that the British system was the best and all the rest of the world admires and seeks to replicate it.

However, if you come from a European continental perspective that is not the case, they will trace their ideas of liberty and human rights from the French enlightenment or the German Reformation. It's interesting that the Battle of Waterloo was regarded by many liberal-minded people in Europe as a great defeat. They looked at the victory of conservative monarchies like England, Prussia and Russia as a huge step back in progress. In the great century of liberalisation in Europe that followed no one looked to recreate the British system of government, they demanded written constitutions based on French revolutionary principles.

If you view the world through an Anglo-Saxon perspective it seems like the best system, other people raised in a different environment will see it differently.

For every appalling indictment of Chinese or French or Russian or Indian history and culture they can quite legitimately throw back similar indictments of English/British history and culture that we conveniently tend to overlook or brush under the carpet when we tell the world how we brought them freedom, individual liberty and the rule of law.

 

[Kinch]

It's the invention that counts.




The Hammerabi code was the first legal system and mostly consisted of smashing you wife's head in if she disagreed with you, it's not a touch on Magna Carta. The English invented modern freedom. The Greeks had a radical Democracy and the Americans were influenced by the Roman system so I'll give you that.





Medical stuff is irrelevant.




The Industrial Revolution started in Britain but that's also largely irrelevant with regards to ideals of liberty. We also invented Geology, evolution and held the world to account over Physics too but that's another story.

I've given you a smiley 'cause I'm smiling, not laughing. What a debate we could have at the Oxford Union - an update if you like, "on liberty". Another time perhaps.

 

[Kinch]

Personally I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but that would be because like you I come from an Anglo-centric (political, rather than ethnic) background, and like you I was taught that the British system was the best and all the rest of the world admires and seeks to replicate it.

However, if you come from a European continental perspective that is not the case, they will trace their ideas of liberty and human rights from the French enlightenment or the German Reformation. It's interesting that the Battle of Waterloo was regarded by many liberal-minded people in Europe as a great defeat. They looked at the victory of conservative monarchies like England, Prussia and Russia as a huge step back in progress. In the great century of liberalisation in Europe that followed no one looked to recreate the British system of government, they demanded written constitutions based on French revolutionary principles.

If you view the world through an Anglo-Saxon perspective it seems like the best system, other people raised in a different environment will see it differently.

For every appalling indictment of Chinese or French or Russian or Indian history and culture they can quite legitimately throw back similar indictments of English/British history and culture that we conveniently tend to overlook or brush under the carpet when we tell the world how we brought them freedom, individual liberty and the rule of law.

....individual liberty and the rule of law at the end of a long barrelled gun!

 

[Bodenplatte]

Not quite. The American version, unlike the British/English, is not a right against unlawful arrest, but only the right to petition a Federal court to be released from custody after such an arrest.

It is an action against unlawful detainment, expressly written into the US Constitution to offer protection in Federal cases, and similar provisions apply in the laws of every state in the Union and US Territories.

 

[Dashing_Chap]

Personally I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but that would be because like you I come from an Anglo-centric (political, rather than ethnic) background, and like you I was taught that the British system was the best and all the rest of the world admires and seeks to replicate it.

However, if you come from a European continental perspective that is not the case, they will trace their ideas of liberty and human rights from the French enlightenment or the German Reformation. It's interesting that the Battle of Waterloo was regarded by many liberal-minded people in Europe as a great defeat. They looked at the victory of conservative monarchies like England, Prussia and Russia as a huge step back in progress. In the great century of liberalisation in Europe that followed no one looked to recreate the British system of government, they demanded written constitutions based on French revolutionary principles.

If you view the world through an Anglo-Saxon perspective it seems like the best system, other people raised in a different environment will see it differently.

For every appalling indictment of Chinese or French or Russian or Indian history and culture they can quite legitimately throw back similar indictments of English/British history and culture that we conveniently tend to overlook or brush under the carpet when we tell the world how we brought them freedom, individual liberty and the rule of law.

I agree, I have an unabashed jingoistic view, I suppose I consider myself a patriot in that respect, and it's not really very good/honest history, but then one can't provide an unbiased perspective. I like to think I take things into account even if they go against the interests of Her Majesty's government.

One day I'd like to get around to reading Lord Acton's essays on liberty, he was certainly an informed fellow.

 

[Bodenplatte]

One day I'd like to get around to reading Lord Acton's essays on liberty, he was certainly an informed fellow.

Best known for his axiom about the corrupting influence of power

 

[Lindermyer]

It's interesting that the Battle of Waterloo was regarded by many liberal-minded people in Europe as a great defeat. They looked at the victory of conservative monarchies like England, Prussia and Russia as a huge step back in progress.

Yes because these liberals dont actually know history

They no more than the schtick we were taught at school Viz French revolution - Liberty Republic and then war with France because our Monarchies were Afraid of a revolution that would steal their power.

Cheerfully Ignoring

1) UK only - We had our revolution 100 years prior - limiting the power of the Monarchy - so not really an issue fir us.

2)The Origional aim of the revolution was to install a UK style constitutional Monarchy.

3) Despite the Bastille day, few nobles beheaded every one free in the new republic - were taught - In reality there was a very nasty damn near genocidal at times civil war. Both against the Monarchists and as in every Left wing revolution since themselves.

4) And this is a huge point they miss
Despite the Bastille day, few nobles beheaded every one free in the new republic - The France fought at Waterloo and indeed accross Spain and the rest of europe WAS NOT A REPUBLIC and herald of Democracy - It was a nasty Dictatorship.

5) These acedemics seem unaware that Napoleon attacked everyone of his neighbours in an effort to secure French domination of the continent, a feat only surpassed by a mono testiculared Austrian in the early 40s.

6) Under Napoleons regime - Women lost many rights.

So Ive no doubt woolly eyed liberals looking at the revolution lament Frances defeat and see it as a victory of Monarchies over the people - but even the majority of French dont see that - because they at least are aware that Napoleons regime had more in line with Imperial rome than a democratic republic.
Meanwhile the Prussians, Austrians, Russians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians etc all breathed a sigh of relief when he was deposed.

 

[Himmler74]

Fair point. It's the invention that counts though.

We also ended slavery world wide and stood up against the far more evil empires of Communism, Nazism and the rising sun so that's gotta go some way to getting even in the grand scheme of things.

Most of the free world would be in concentration camps or gulags right now if it wasn't for British ideals of and the defence of liberty.

If the Japanese had left America out of it, things would have been very different in Europe, the Germans would never have succeeded in invading Great Britain, however no matter how rose tinted those glasses we wear when thinking about our role in WW2, it would have been a very much longer conflict ending in statement.