Is the West superior

[redshift]

Subjective. The West is superior on some things and not on others. It is a very broad statement to just say "the West is superior" as there are hundreds of different industries / areas to compare.

Also depends on how big a spectrum you are looking too, if we are looking at top 10s then see below. But if we are looking at the top 3 that level of 'superiority' changes as it does if you look at just the number 1 slot.

Top 10 Most Powerful Militaries in the World
https://ceoworld.biz/2018/11/23/the-worlds-most-powerful-militaries-in-2018/
1. United States
2. Russia
3. China
4. India
5. France
6. United Kingdom
7. Japan
8. Turkey
9. Germany
10. Egypt

4 out of 10 of the above are “Western Countries”.


Top 10 Strongest Economies in the World
https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/
1. United States
2. China
3. Japan
4. Germany
5. United Kingdom
6. India
7. France
8. Brazil
9. Italy
10. Canada

7 out of 10 of the above are “Western Countries”.

Meh, that military comparison is stupid as it's just merely based on numbers and not true reach like the ability to deploy across the globe, logistics capabilities, tactics, comms, etc. etc.

 

[Mike Barton]

No... not a typo.... the last internecine conflict in mainland Britain was 1746, it was in answer to the OP's assertion we have not "learned the joys of using a machete against a fellow human!"
We were happily hacking each other to bits for a well over a millennium before that, it's just we learned a little earlier than most to peacefully co-exist at home..... not talking about War between nation states!

Oh I see, I get you, you were referring to Britain specifically.

But you exclude Ireland from your peaceful Britain thesis, which is a wee bit like saying that Harold Shipman fella was a pretty decent doctor, if you exclude all the patients he killed.

 

[Mike Barton]

Subjective. The West is superior on some things and not on others. It is a very broad statement to just say "the West is superior" as there are hundreds of different industries / areas to compare.

Also depends on how big a spectrum you are looking too, if we are looking at top 10s then see below. But if we are looking at the top 3 that level of 'superiority' changes as it does if you look at just the number 1 slot.

Top 10 Most Powerful Militaries in the World
https://ceoworld.biz/2018/11/23/the-worlds-most-powerful-militaries-in-2018/
1. United States
2. Russia
3. China
4. India
5. France
6. United Kingdom
7. Japan
8. Turkey
9. Germany
10. Egypt

4 out of 10 of the above are “Western Countries”.


Top 10 Strongest Economies in the World
https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/
1. United States
2. China
3. Japan
4. Germany
5. United Kingdom
6. India
7. France
8. Brazil
9. Italy
10. Canada

7 out of 10 of the above are “Western Countries”.

I only get six western countries in the strongest economies list, are you including Brazil as western? Surely you would put it in the same category as India?

 

[oppoStu]

I only get six western countries in the strongest economies list, are you including Brazil as western? Surely you would put it in the same category as India?

Brazil is Western according to this: Western Countries 2019

 

[oppoStu]

Meh, that military comparison is stupid as it's just merely based on numbers and not true reach like the ability to deploy across the globe, logistics capabilities, tactics, comms, etc. etc.

True. However, my point was that there are more than just the 'economy' and the 'military' to compare countries, there are thousands of areas that can be compared like; fishing, mining, healthcare, education, carbon emissions, who is taller, who is fatter, life expectancy, wealth, who sings the best etc etc etc

To outright say the West is best is false as it is based on your opinion and what you deem 'important' that backs up your choice.

You have to remember that most of the West constantly regurgitates that we are the best in social media/PR etc, you have to take a step back and look into the detail yourself using unbias sources or even better, go look for yourself to form a founded opinion.

 

[smartascarrots]

You have to remember that most of the West constantly regurgitates that we are the best in social media/PR etc, you have to take a step back and look into the detail yourself using unbias sources or even better, go look for yourself to form a founded opinion.

I think we're at the stage now where a lot of what we're best at is in the same vein as Rome being 'best' at Latin during the Dark Ages.

Maybe it was true, maybe it was a comforting falsehood based of subjective opinion on what Latin had become but either way it's only part of the story and not necessarily the most important part.

Much of how we define 'best', 'superiority' or excellence' in any case is just a thinly veiled synonym for 'like us'.

 

[Busterdog]

Oh I see, I get you, you were referring to Britain specifically.

But you exclude Ireland from your peaceful Britain thesis, which is a wee bit like saying that Harold Shipman fella was a pretty decent doctor, if you exclude all the patients he killed.

I mentioned NI... though was specifically referring to mainland Britain.

 

[Busterdog]

Radical War of 1820, small and possibly even historically insignificant but after your cut off.

Not really a 'War' though... was it? Civil unrest, not much 'hacking' unless you include Peterloo ... I believe the 15th Hussars were involved in both MACA areas... Peterloo and the Scottish Lowlands.

 

[Sana]

I was originally commenting on another thread, but I have often thought that if Africa was the birthplace of modern man (apologies Lucy) or the middle East was the birthplace of paper or democracy etc, why are all these areas in such a state of chaos these days.
I struggle to think of another country other than Britain where there can be an independence vote (Scotland) and a referendum (brexit) where the results are so close that it could go either way and the population hasn't started rioting and started ethnic cleansing. I was in Bosnia and saw what happens when neighbor turns against neighbor.
Are we so much better than the rest of the world at seeing another person's point of view of have we just not discovered the '"joy" of using a machete against s fellow human. Why are we regularly stable when the rest of the world is in chaos, is it because we have the luxury of being morally superior or are we naive and for everyone else life is just life.

I believe the West is so much better than the rest of the world at seeing another person's point of view, respecting their beliefs and opinions; hence the stability. There is no need to for people to rebel or resort to widespread violence, as their rights and choices are respected. This has not happened over Brexit, nor did it happen when statues were defaced and toppled. No revenge killings.

It is about the individual more than the collective. Europe was at war with each other for centuries and ruled most of the world, which ended with the horrific world wars. The great thing about Europe and especially Britain is that people are not so obsessed with the past. They learnt from the past and strove to make a better future.

 

[Bodenplatte]

You know our age of consent is 16, right?

I bet you say that to all the girls

 

[par avion]

I believe the West is so much better than the rest of the world at seeing another person's point of view, respecting their beliefs and opinions; hence the stability. There is no need to for people to rebel or resort to widespread violence, as their rights and choices are respected. This has not happened over Brexit, nor did it happen when statues were defaced and toppled. No revenge killings.

It is about the individual more than the collective. Europe was at war with each other for centuries and ruled most of the world, which ended with the horrific world wars. The great thing about Europe and especially Britain is that people are not so obsessed with the past. They learnt from the past and strove to make a better future.

You are not going to get a job with the Guardian if you keep posting these sensible comments, you know that don't you? You will joining Priti Patel on the leftie naughty step!

 

[Kinch]

I believe the West is so much better than the rest of the world at seeing another person's point of view, respecting their beliefs and opinions; hence the stability. There is no need to for people to rebel or resort to widespread violence, as their rights and choices are respected. This has not happened over Brexit, nor did it happen when statues were defaced and toppled. No revenge killings.

It is about the individual more than the collective. Europe was at war with each other for centuries and ruled most of the world, which ended with the horrific world wars. The great thing about Europe and especially Britain is that people are not so obsessed with the past. They learnt from the past and strove to make a better future.

Evolution ......... 200,000 died during the English Civil War..........and you do realize that Ireland is in the West? The frightening thing is that if we accept that Africa has evolved and taken backward steps since the 'birth of man' and the Middle East has trodden a similar path since Hammurabi began the quest for social standards, are we on an evolutionary pathway that is going to cumulate in utter disaster.

Of course, its not really frightening at all.....we will never live that long......its someone else's problem. The Middle-East and Afrika did it all by themselves. Clever feckers that we are.

 

[Yokel]

I believe the West is so much better than the rest of the world at seeing another person's point of view, respecting their beliefs and opinions; hence the stability. There is no need to for people to rebel or resort to widespread violence, as their rights and choices are respected. This has not happened over Brexit, nor did it happen when statues were defaced and toppled. No revenge killings.

It is about the individual more than the collective. Europe was at war with each other for centuries and ruled most of the world, which ended with the horrific world wars. The great thing about Europe and especially Britain is that people are not so obsessed with the past. They learnt from the past and strove to make a better future.

That is the point of political systems with opposing parties, a free media, freedom of speech, and the right to protest. Just as every stable control system relies on negative feedback to stop going out if control, discussion between different groups, and accepting that sometimes they have a point provides negative feedback and keeps things sensible.

 

[par avion]

and Afrika did it all by themselves

Erwin Rommel walt.

 

[Sana]

That is the point of political systems with opposing parties, a free media, freedom of speech, and the right to protest. Just as every stable control system relies on negative feedback to stop going out if control, discussion between different groups, and accepting that sometimes they have a point provides negative feedback and keeps things sensible.

I agree. This happens in theory everywhere, and practiced more in the West.

 

[Sana]

Evolution ......... 200,000 died during the English Civil War..........and you do realize that Ireland is in the West? The frightening thing is that if we accept that Africa has evolved and taken backward steps since the 'birth of man' and the Middle East has trodden a similar path since Hammurabi began the quest for social standards, are we on an evolutionary pathway that is going to cumulate in utter disaster.

Of course, its not really frightening at all.....we will never live that long......its someone else's problem. The Middle-East and Afrika did it all by themselves. Clever feckers that we are.

Africa and Asia care more about the collective than the individual. Europe cares more about the individual than the collective.

 

[FourZeroCharlie]

Africa and Asia care more about the collective than the individual. . .

. . . as long as you follow the correct interpretation of the word of Allah . . .

 

[Yokel]

Africa and Asia care more about the collective than the individual. Europe cares more about the individual than the collective.

Not so much in these days of identity politics.

Nobody is an individual any more, just a member of various groups engaged in a struggle for power. The groups then appoint themselves as beyond any reproach. As such any other group that has any sort of opposing viewpoint is to be vilified.

As the self appointed representatives of these group consider themself the centre of truth, facts do not count as much as feelings.

 

[Sana]

Not so much in these days of identity politics.

Nobody is an individual any more, just a member of various groups engaged in a struggle for power. The groups then appoint themselves as beyond any reproach. As such any other group that has any sort of opposing viewpoint is to be vilified.

As the self appointed representatives of these group consider themself the centre of truth, facts do not count as much as feelings.

I get what you mean. A debate like this wouldn't go down well these days:

 

[Kinch]

Africa and Asia care more about the collective than the individual. Europe cares more about the individual than the collective.

You are talking about cultural forms. When you drill down into them the issues and consequences become clearer. The indiviual could not survive without some elements of socio-cultural collectivism. Some European legal systems promote positive theories of freedom that lean towards a collectivist vision of society. In the UK we have generally promoted the negative theory of freedom and its greater lean towards liberal economies and individualism.......but, that is changing.......especially in times of crises........or haven't you noticed?