Is the lack of military service the cause of our very poor politicians?

I certainly don't think it's the cause but it probably helps. When the military training system works properly it can indoctrinate a very particular set of principles which are (in my opinion) the right ones for public service. However it is not infallible: I know of one Officer who took his boarding school housemaster's cat, put it in its carrier, taped a whole load of bricks to the outside and hoyed the whole lot into the school pond. Exeunt cat. It's on The Sun website somewhere but I know from others that it's gen. If you start off with poor materials or those whose face fits as it so often can then AOSB can be fooled and let's face it, there is always an element of the numbers game at training institutions based on the requirements of the day. Back in 09/10 those at AOSB were being told that as there was a recession on there was stiff competition to pass however this was balanced out by the needs of Ops etc.

Anyway I digress: to get to the top in any environment requires the individual to be a bit of a cunt from time to time or even all the time, it seems to be a human failing. If you have a group of well-qualified individuals at the top what separates them? The most ambitious who will push the others aside it seems. Becoming an MP does require a desire for power but you could say this about anyone who is promoted beyond Pte or applies for AOSB, the desire in itself is not inherently wrong. If no-one wanted to lead, advance or change things humanity would still be in huts.

I agree that too many politicians play or have to play the political game. I find it amazing there are those who go public school - gap year - Oxbridge/red brick - political researcher/bag carrier- councillor or candidate - MP. However it happens and these people know how to play the political game and what gets things done. In The Political Animal Jeremy Paxman describes how new MPs are left to float about and some don't even get an office initially, there isn't some kind of induction course. However if you have been an aide or SpAd then you know how it all happens. What is needed is a reform of the system: how should that be done? Secondly, what qualifies as a "proper job" as someone has said, that an MP should do before they start? There's some Labour MP who was a carer then union rep before becoming an MP. It's a valuable job but being a carer hardly requires advanced thought or high-level professional training. It's certainly a "proper job" but it's not very demanding and Westminster should be an elite.
The MP in question is Angela Rayner.Got elected only two years ago,left school with zero quals,and is shadow education secretary,ffs.Totally loyal to Comrade Corbyn,in the best commie tradition.
 

And that's the point, contrary to what some of the noisier Arrseratti believe, being in the Army for the very vast majority isn't actually terribly special or dangerous, and doesnt confer some special homo superior status,
Most service personnel do nothing more dangerous during their employment that someone working at ASDA, fireperson Sam, or Samantha even, experience extreme life threatening danger as part and parcel of their day to day employ.
 
Welsh, extreme left-wing Union lover says the Army are idle/useless whiners and colliers/factory workers are the best people he has ever known.

Well, colour me shocked!

Could you do me a favour and edit in something about how nasty the Tories are?

Thanks.

Oh, and because I care, this might help How To Use Surprise To Reduce Your Confirmation Bias
You forgot Republican! Oh and that bias nonsense you forget forces rock up with that attitude and get unstuck as they seem to forget a work ethic and keeping our gob shut counts for more.
 
The problem with politicians basically boils down to the problem political parties have: how do you tell that the prospective MP you're about to put up for election in the borough of Dunny-on-the-Wold is a decent sort, and not a spectacularly bigoted throbber who'll put their foot in it first chance they're left alone with a journalist and a microphone?

The Tories do it by trying to recruit only successful business folk, on the not unreasonable grounds that all the out and out numpties get weeded out before that successful bit kicks in.

The Labour lot do it by making each candidate spend an inordinate amount of time working their way up through the Labour ranks, so any innate tendency towards vileness can be spotted. The downside of this is that dedicated, borderline-psychopaths do quite well in these circumstances, and this is the system that gave us Tony Blair and Gordon Brown (although lessons seem to have been learned, and a maximum IQ system is now in place in Labour HQ).

However, remember how UKIP seemed to lurch from PR disaster to public gaffe? That was because they'd not sorted out the personnel filtering properly, so the throbbers and politically incorrect kept sneaking through. Basically, it is the political party system that feeds us a steady stream of anodyne twerps, because that's all that gets through the potential-plonker sieve.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
You forgot Republican! Oh and that bias nonsense you forget forces rock up with that attitude and get unstuck as they seem to forget a work ethic and keeping our gob shut counts for more.
Happens I agree with you, but it’s Arrse so I took the easy option and had a bit of a dig instead.

Let’s face it, no one would post here if we all said nice things to each other.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
At the moment the politicians police themselves with their fallacious "independent" committees filled with their mates. I would like to see a truly independent "Parliamentary Police" who would be responsible for imposing the rules, investigating the breaking of those rules and passing the files onto the DPP for processing. Will not happen because these low lifes consider themselves above the electorate and above the law.
Yet we still vote for them. No doubt in a desperate attempt to ensure the least damaging option is given leave to fuck up everything they touch.
 
In regards to the issue of pay, it seems being an MP is the only job where they day you are elected you are on the same pay as a bloke who has 20 plus years experience of doing the job.#
But the bloke with 20 years experience will have a multitude of Non-Exec directorships and advisory jobs to supplement their meager income. The new bloke is useful to no-one, so he's on basic

The other thing you're confusing is experience with ability & effectiveness. Some of the most useless MP's in the Commons, and the ones who contribute the least are also unsurprisingly, the longest served
 
It would be nice if MP's had to undergo a psychological assessment to weed out the narcissists, hidden psychopaths and other negative mental states.
You should read this.
It's a really good read and takes a perspective insight into what makes an MP, and more importantly, why people want to be an MP.

Granted, it's 15 yrs old, so the whole Youth Activist > Oxford PPE > SPAD > MP thing hadn't reached its peak, but it's gives you an idea. Strangely (15 yrs ago) Paxo's hypothesis is that they really all do it due to a sense of service to the people/country



 
But the bloke with 20 years experience will have a multitude of Non-Exec directorships and advisory jobs to supplement their meager income. The new bloke is useful to no-one, so he's on basic

The other thing you're confusing is experience with ability & effectiveness. Some of the most useless MP's in the Commons, and the ones who contribute the least are also unsurprisingly, the longest served
And this bloke at the 20 year period of his working life had done his military service, returned to civvie street and resumed his carrer in heavy construction, night school, more qualifications, more hands on experience, promoted to foreman, running jobs, and one occasion the whole site, and yet still on comparatively low wages, compared to a mid 30s MP newly elected, with no worldly experience and expected to represent many thousands of its constituents. When I retired at 66 I was still on a much lower wage than my now 31 year old MP. I still get job offers, why do you think that is? And as your last post mentions long carrer MPs who languish in the Westminster bubble, no really good promotion prospects, but they don't really need them, not on £76k a year+ perks and expenses, and they wonder in their naïve simplicicty why the oiks out there in the real world hate and despise them.
 
Watching the Cenotaph remembrance parade today I was struck by the lack of service medals on display by our leading politicians


On reflection, I believe this is a big part of the current problem we have on all sides of the house, namely, a lack of discipline, courage, respect, integrity, leadership, management and cohesion. We can see it in the constant u-turns and lack of conviction and most importantly none are prepared to self sacrifice their careers to do their best for the country in the face of any wingeing from the media or pressure groups.

Of course I could be wrong that the lack of military experience is the root cause of the issue but one thing I can say is that the lack of it certainly hasn't produced any outstanding characters in this particular generation!
I used to hold the same view, but that view is actually rather naive. In most cases, you are dealing with former officers. I’ve served with some cracking commissioned blokes, and also a fair few useless bellends. If that is a reflection of society and represents diversity, then fair enough, but I think Jim 30 has it pretty much in a nutshell.
Any former officer with the selfless leadership qualities to make a good MP, would have the sense to disbar himself from such a group of self serving and nasty hypocrites.
 
The Third Collapsing Fusileers would snap them up in a shot!

Edited to add - Is it wrong to look at that photo and be thinking 'Theresa May has a pretty decent set of pins on her"?
She's all yours.....
 
You should read this.
It's a really good read and takes a perspective insight into what makes an MP, and more importantly, why people want to be an MP.

Granted, it's 15 yrs old, so the whole Youth Activist > Oxford PPE > SPAD > MP thing hadn't reached its peak, but it's gives you an idea. Strangely (15 yrs ago) Paxo's hypothesis is that they really all do it due to a sense of service to the people/country



Good read is that, didn't realise it was 15 years mind.
 

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