Is the Corps ASMs job spec correct?

#1
As I'm coming to the end of my Colour Service, there's been one area that seems to have upset alot Corps members...On a recent PAAB the following question was asked with the Corps ASM actually sat in the syndicate room..."Who is the Corps ASM and what does he do", none of the junior Corps members knew and couldn't really answer the question! (A tumbleweed moment for the ASM, me thinks!)
Funny really, because there's alot of senior members of the Corps who can't really answer that one!

So why the grey area, should the Corps ASM spend more time on the coal face to find out whats going on...away from the shadow of the Director?

And nobody really knowns what he does...why have one?

PS....Please no DS Solution form HQ DEME(A), Field Force only because that where it matters!!!
 
#2
op2death,
It doesn't matter who the CORPS ASM is as all incumbants so far have done the same thing:
TOED THE PARTY-LINE & WAITED FOR THEIR LE COMISSION!!!!!!!!!!
It was pretty much the same situation when we had a CORPS RSM for the RD/RS/TSS (or whatever they will be called next,I prefer TARMAC TECHNICIAN as it gives them a sense of belonging inside the CORPS!)
However the question remains what is the role?.It's not as if the individual is concerned about Cfn Bloggs feelings or concerns.Just as long as EMS is in use,DEME(A) Engineering Standards are quoted,the world smells of fresh paint and some staged workers on the shop floor with script memorised.Then all is good in the Ivory Towers.
"Marvellous LAD here,carry on ASM"
Or I am I just too cynical?
 
#3
Nothing will change until we the workers tell them what we would like.
1. The CORPS ASM to take the lead on all matters relating to presentations for all CORPS members who complete a FULL CAREER.
2. In relation to op2deaths thread on the sick/lame lazy,the CORPS ASM should be telling DEME(A) to get rid of the deadwood
3.He should rip MCM Div a new A**HOLE for moving the goalposts on promotions and not telling anyone until it was too late.
4.The CORPS ASM needs to get a grip of the CORPS Sgts Mess and find a way of making it a place that individuals aspire to join & above all USE.
5.The CORPS ASM and DEME(A) need to admit when the Ivory Towers have got it wrong & what is going to happen to make sure it doesn't happen again
 
#5
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
Nothing will change until we the workers tell them what we would like.
1. The CORPS ASM to take the lead on all matters relating to presentations for all CORPS members who complete a FULL CAREER.
Is that really the first thing he has to do? Why do so many people get hung up on this? I'm near the end of my time but its never been anything that bothers me in the slightest as its not like we're having anything taken away is it? What do you suggest we should get & how would we fund it?
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
2. In relation to op2deaths thread on the sick/lame lazy,the CORPS ASM should be telling DEME(A) to get rid of the deadwood
The Director hinted at this at the last WOs conference
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
3.He should rip MCM Div a new A**HOLE for moving the goalposts on promotions and not telling anyone until it was too late.
Not really the ASMs thing is it what with them being headed up by a Colonel. Do they move the goal posts or are the decisions made at DEME(A)? I dunno the answer to that one
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
4.The CORPS ASM needs to get a grip of the CORPS Sgts Mess and find a way of making it a place that individuals aspire to join & above all USE.
The last RSM of SEAE did a good job on the mess but as long as we're meant to be going to Wales, nowt will be spent on it. Would you really use it a lot if it was snazzy? I've never been much of a mess animal, still a singly so downtown has always pulled more than with colleagues.
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
5.The CORPS ASM and DEME(A) need to admit when the Ivory Towers have got it wrong & what is going to happen to make sure it doesn't happen again
Agree, communication was at the heart of the recent balls up IMHO. The Craftsman should have had articles in it explaining the why's and the what nots or at least Bn's given the answers and expected to disperse the info out to each Div/Bde.

I think that the CASM job is good for the indivisual after they are in post due to the amount of insider trading they see at Officer level but apart from that I don't see the advantages.
Its no secret that the current (and in fact the next) CASM is a friend of mine and all I can say is that whenever Ive asked for advice he's been open and willing to give it to me and so I think he's done a good job.
What advice would you give the new one?
 
#6
Spaz - Funny you should mention the TRF thing. Not this CASM, but a previous CASM (wont say which!) once followed me on a bike for not 'acknowledging him'. I tend to only acknowledge ASMs/Offrs when I can see them or walk past them etc.
Anyway, he made some comment about me being 'in a world of my own' - fair one - but then his face turned to horror as my TRF was sat above a unit DZ flash, as opposed to the standard 12cm down on my sleeve.
I pointed out that I didn't sew my badges on like that off my own back, and that I was just conforming to our CO's policy regarding dress.
He made some comment about making it his priority about getting around the units and sorting this dress regs thing out, before wandering off again.
I remember thinking to myself, I wouldn't mind a job like that if a little cloth badge could rank so high on you 'to-do' list. 8)
 
#7
The Corps ASM will always toe the party line. He's a Warrant Officer and as such he implements policy as directed from above.

Warrant Officers will advise Officers on matters, but in the end they must implement the decision once it is made, however unpopular it is.

If a Warrant Officer went against the decisions made by his boss, he would be sacked, unless there was a legal or operational reason for going against the direction.
 
#8
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
op2death,
It doesn't matter who the CORPS ASM is as all incumbants so far have done the same thing:
TOED THE PARTY-LINE & WAITED FOR THEIR LE COMISSION!!!!!!!!!!
It was pretty much the same situation when we had a CORPS RSM for the RD/RS/TSS (or whatever they will be called next,I prefer TARMAC TECHNICIAN as it gives them a sense of belonging inside the CORPS!)
However the question remains what is the role?.It's not as if the individual is concerned about Cfn Bloggs feelings or concerns.Just as long as EMS is in use,DEME(A) Engineering Standards are quoted,the world smells of fresh paint and some staged workers on the shop floor with script memorised.Then all is good in the Ivory Towers.
"Marvellous LAD here,carry on ASM"
Or I am I just too cynical?
No, not cynical...Truthful! I must make it clear, this isn't a comment on any CASM...Just the position! From the comments that I've heard over the last few years, the CASM is seen less than a lesser spotted woodpecker, especially in the Field Force and aparently hates going abroad...However, the above points are mentioned on a regular basis!!!

I personally don't believe the CASM exsists...and that Elvis is alive & well...
 
#9
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
TOED THE PARTY-LINE & WAITED FOR THEIR LE COMISSION!!!!!!!!!!
Taking this a little wider, I have never seen the point of Corps ASM's/RSM’s across the board.

Yes they sit on several committees and boards, however what value do they actually add that Regimental RSM’s in rotation could not. Lets face it most of them sit in a location where there is some sort of training Regt with an RSM already in place whay can he not be the Corps senior WO

I am not a closed book on this one, if they genuinely do stuff that the rest of us are not aware off then maybe a bit of communication rather than a ‘need to know’ (or rather don’t need to know) attitude would make their roles clearer. It would then not just look like a senior WO job creation scheme.

One point though. I am of the understanding that they have already gained an LE commission and during their tenure their officer seniority runs from the day they take post, therefore, they are not trying to please in order to gain one
 
#10
CAARPS said:
REMEWOTAJOKE said:
TOED THE PARTY-LINE & WAITED FOR THEIR LE COMISSION!!!!!!!!!!
Taking this a little wider, I have never seen the point of Corps ASM's/RSM’s across the board.

Yes they sit on several committees and boards, however what value do they actually add that Regimental RSM’s in rotation could not. Lets face it most of them sit in a location where there is some sort of training Regt with an RSM already in place whay can he not be the Corps senior WO

I am not a closed book on this one, if they genuinely do stuff that the rest of us are not aware off then maybe a bit of communication rather than a ‘need to know’ (or rather don’t need to know) attitude would make their roles clearer. It would then not just look like a senior WO job creation scheme.

One point though. I am of the understanding that they have already gained an LE commission and during their tenure their officer seniority runs from the day they take post, therefore, they are not trying to please in order to gain one
Before we lose the point of this subject...The CASM's LE Commission is irrelevant,! If the Field Force aren't even aware of what the CASM does or even who he is...then whats the point? (To the junior ranks, whether he's going commission means nothing!)
To put things into prospective, over the last four years my Wksp has been visited by the RE CRSM four times, and during this time the CASM was nowhere to be seen???
 
#11
O2D I can assure you that the CASM is "out of bed" a hell of a lot and is out of the country a lot more than we'd expect as well. Its one of the reasons why its never appealed to me, not because Im shirking being out of bed but because its one day here, one day there, one day in BATUS the next in Herrick.
I expect the RESM has a lot less units to visit too!
 
#12
sparky8 said:
O2D I can assure you that the CASM is "out of bed" a hell of a lot and is out of the country a lot more than we'd expect as well. Its one of the reasons why its never appealed to me, not because Im shirking being out of bed but because its one day here, one day there, one day in BATUS the next in Herrick.
I expect the RESM has a lot less units to visit too!
WOW, you make him sound like Father Christmas, but without the presents!!!
If the post of CASM is that good...why then the large negative reaction throughout the Corps and the obvious lack of face time with many units! Unless you work at HQ DEME(A) or the current CASM is a close friend? From you comments, the CASM visits Herrick one day and overviewing LEAN in BATUS the next...that accounts for atleast two days of the year! Either which way...the post of CASM seems to be ineffective to the Field Force...regardless!!
 
#14
Devilishdave said:
RE dont have minor units the way we do so much less units to visit.

Dave
Fair point, however the RE CRSM still visited four times in the last four years, where as the CASM hasn't visited at all...the stats do speak for themselves!!!
 
#15
22 years served and never seen the CASM, not that it bothers me. :)
 
#16
shortarms said:
22 years served and never seen the CASM, not that it bothers me. :)
To be honest, it doesn't bother me either...I should be able to sleep at night! However, can you imagine being an up and coming member of the Corps and realising that you've got a better chance of meeting the Prime Minister than the CASM!!
 
#17
JesterRIP said:
Spaz - Funny you should mention the TRF thing. Not this CASM, but a previous CASM (wont say which!) once followed me on a bike for not 'acknowledging him'. I tend to only acknowledge ASMs/Offrs when I can see them or walk past them etc.
Anyway, he made some comment about me being 'in a world of my own' - fair one - but then his face turned to horror as my TRF was sat above a unit DZ flash, as opposed to the standard 12cm down on my sleeve.
I pointed out that I didn't sew my badges on like that off my own back, and that I was just conforming to our CO's policy regarding dress.
He made some comment about making it his priority about getting around the units and sorting this dress regs thing out, before wandering off again.
I remember thinking to myself, I wouldn't mind a job like that if a little cloth badge could rank so high on you 'to-do' list. 8)
It's got to be pretty high up there on the job spec, the present/last (When does the new one take over?) CASM gave a briefing not so long ago. Around five minutes in, he spotted someone not wearing a TRF and started briefing the fella up, before whipping a shiny new TRF from his top right pocket and informing him he should have it sewn on by that afternoon.

Everytime the fella in question, walked past CASM during the next few weeks, he would stop whatever he was doing, spin round and bark "Where's your TRF?" at him. Once satisfied that St Eligius was not silently weeping in heaven, he would crack on with whatever it was he was doing previously.

During the briefing, he spoke for about 40 mins, on various corps matters but all I can recall is TRF TRF TRF.

Op2death said:
To put things into prospective, over the last four years my Wksp has been visited by the RE CRSM four times, and during this time the CASM was nowhere to be seen???
Does CASM even do his own gigs? I thought he just went wherever the big man did.
 
#18
O2D I did say in my previous post that he is a friend of mine.

2 days a year? Come on, you've started a few interesting topics, don't drop your standards with flippant remarks like that, I mean, how the hell would the RAF get him in and out in a day?! ;)

Spaz, its a shame that you decided to focus on him gripping someone and not on the other things he had to say. I know that when he briefed the upgraders in SEAE on the same topics that you would have received on ACFC that it was informative and of good use to those listening.

I know that the current CASM is very passionate about driving Esprit de Corps. Perhaps he thought that a future Artificer, soon to lead fellow soldiers should be at the very least correctly dressed. First impressions and all that. But like I said, I don't know and don't suppose to assume.
 
#19
spaz said:
It's got to be pretty high up there on the job spec, the present/last (When does the new one take over?) CASM gave a briefing not so long ago. Around five minutes in, he spotted someone not wearing a TRF and started briefing the fella up, before whipping a shiny new TRF from his top right pocket and informing him he should have it sewn on by that afternoon.

Everytime the fella in question, walked past CASM during the next few weeks, he would stop whatever he was doing, spin round and bark "Where's your TRF?" at him. Once satisfied that St Eligius was not silently weeping in heaven, he would crack on with whatever it was he was doing previously.

During the briefing, he spoke for about 40 mins, on various corps matters but all I can recall is TRF TRF TRF.

Does CASM even do his own gigs? I thought he just went wherever the big man did.
I am not a great beleiver in TRFs full stop not just the REME one. Any one in my unit even as a Cfn knew full well I was REME without wearing a TRF. On Ops a lot of lads won’t go out of the gate wearing them (what they see as a well defined distant aiming marker at heart height) and only wear them in BSN KAF etc. But as has been said before orders have been given. If the Corps ASM is picking people up for not wearing TRFs then a whole host of people in that individual’s chain of command have failed to do their job.

To be fair I don’t know the Corps ASM or DEME(A) but the director has visited my minor unit twice in the last 12 months and the ASM once. So perhaps you and your unit are just unlucky or lucky depending on which way you want to view it.
 
#20
Haven't read all of the detail here as some of it is vitriolic tosh; some is quite insightful.

A few observations if I may.

1. The Corps ASM is already selected for commision on taking up the post and is effectively a substantive Captain acting WO1. He therefore does not have to worry about the impact on his commissioning prospects. Additionally as he is time barred from his next promotion (Minimum of 5 years before looking) he can still speak his mind without too much effect on the SJAR making it to his next board.

2. The Corps ASMs role is quite clear. He is the senior soldier within the Corps and advises DEME(A) and the Regt'l Col on many Corps issues and is the voice of 'the men' if you like. He is to DEME(A) what an RSM is to the CO for example.

3. If you feel he should get around more, or do more then write to him and tell him. Invite him to your unit and use it as an opportunity to convey some of your concerns to him. If you are not in a position to do that then put it all in a letter and send it too him - anonomously if you are lacking in the moral courage.

4. As Nige rightly points out, he (the CASM) will openly suport Corps policy once it is public because he is a good soldier and follows orders and the CoC.
 

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