Is the Conservative Party in the process of destroying itself.

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
If you believe the polls...... they estimate Boris will get a 160 seat majority in a GE..
The same polls that said Change UK would have a major impact on UK politics when first formed and TBP would win in Peterborough?

The BoJo polls are predicated on the assumptions that (a) he'll win the leadership election, (2) he'll succeed in forcing through a no deal Brexit (as the EU will try to block one via a deal) and (3) the voters will forgive and forget May's incompetence, lies, f--- ups and failure to deliver Brexit as repeatedly promised.

That's a big ask.

Wordsmith
 
The same polls that said Change UK would have a major impact on UK politics when first formed and TBP would win in Peterborough?

The BoJo polls are predicated on the assumptions that (a) he'll win the leadership election, (2) he'll succeed in forcing through a no deal Brexit (as the EU will try to block one via a deal) and (3) the voters will forgive and forget May's incompetence, lies, f--- ups and failure to deliver Brexit as repeatedly promised.

That's a big ask.

Wordsmith
I did say ‘and pigs might fly’!
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
In effect, PLP has same issue as Tories: there's a Brexit/Bremain schism, and Jezza has been dick-dancing around it.

If he's to have any hope of leading an effective parliamentary opposition he'll have to confront the issue at some point, but he's been happy so far to sit on the fence whilst kicking the can down the road.
Jezza must be dreading the arrival of BoJo. Firstly, BoJo is likely to be a far more effective and dynamic leader than May, showing up Jezza's shortcomings in that department.

Second, BoJo is an effective public speaker. I used to listen to mayor's question time. BoJo took unscripted questions from the floor - something most politicians won't. One of Jezza's advantages in the 2017 GE was that he was a far better public speaker than May. That advantage has now gone.

Finally, BoJo predictably starting down the road to a hard Brexit will force Jezza off the fence and reveal the splits in the Labour party - as the time at which BoJo starts to paper over the ones in the Tory party.

Jezza's heading into stormy waters.

Wordsmith
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
All of which makes me doubt just how genuine a lot of the Tory leadership candidates are, in talking tough about us leaving in the interim. Is it all bluff and bluster, just playing to the crowd...Only to act all surprised and hamstrung by the dates, then set up another round of pretend negotiations again in November?
If the incoming PM is serious he needs to tell Brussels goodbye and no more money from the moment he steps into Downing Street. Talk and act tough, if the Eu want to pretend they will negotiate then they will. Otherwise shut the door and turn off the cash taps from day one!
 
And we're now seeing our pre-Trump era. Or the nascent stages of it unless the Cons get someone in charge ASAP whose basically willing to redress the neo-liberal values it has seemingly embraced with open arms.
But America is now in its post- Conservative phase.

Trump wouldn't be a classic Republican under any circumstances- his economic illiteracy means that none of his core policies are Republican, small government and Free trade. He isn't a Democrat either. He is some kind of sociopathic anarchist.

I would say that America is now teetering on a decision between out and out Imperial government under a degenerate dynasty or some kind of equally degenerate fundamentalist Christian theocracy.
 
But America is now in its post- Conservative phase.

Trump wouldn't be a classic Republican under any circumstances- his economic illiteracy means that none of his core policies are Republican, small government and Free trade. He isn't a Democrat either. He is some kind of sociopathic anarchist.

I would say that America is now teetering on a decision between out and out Imperial government under a degenerate dynasty or some kind of equally degenerate fundamentalist Christian theocracy.
The anarchist label, well I'm just surprised some wag hasn't used that to ironically apply the XRW label
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
A-far-king-men to that.

Tories are currently in deeper dudu with their erstwhile voters than any Tory party in my lifetime (which began 2 years after the Suez crisis).

That's really saying something.
It Labour play into BoJo's hands (as the probable next Tory leader) by effectively blocking Brexit by trying to rule out a no deal Brexit, some of the voter anger will transfer to Labour.

As such, we could be looking at a game of pass the blame parcel as far as recriminations for not Brexiting are concerned.

Wordsmith
 
It Labour play into BoJo's hands (as the probable next Tory leader) by effectively blocking Brexit by trying to rule out a no deal Brexit, some of the voter anger will transfer to Labour.

As such, we could be looking at a game of pass the blame parcel as far as recriminations for not Brexiting are concerned.

Wordsmith
Keir Starmer proposing just that motion in the House at this moment. “Unprecedented Times” he calls it. At least we agree on something!
Irrespective of what happens in the coming weeks, whilst the Tories select their next leader, the numbers in the House haven’t changed.
Deja Vu springs to mind.
 
It Labour play into BoJo's hands (as the probable next Tory leader) by effectively blocking Brexit by trying to rule out a no deal Brexit, some of the voter anger will transfer to Labour.
Exactly my point at about 1030 today. Jeza looks as doomed by schism as was PMTM. There is no happy pathway of compromise available to him, any more than to her, given that whatever may be the stance favoured by the PLP, their constituencies contain a very large proportion of unforgiving Brexiteers.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Keir Starmer proposing just that motion in the House at this moment. “Unprecedented Times” he calls it. At least we agree on something!
Irrespective of what happens in the coming weeks, whilst the Tories select their next leader, the numbers in the House haven’t changed.
Deja Vu springs to mind.
What will have changed is BoJo making a genuine and determined attempt to Brexit. Previously, MP's could argue they were rejecting a deeply flawed WA.

BoJo will change the rules of the game - he will argue that he's trying to get a revised deal from the EU; in the absence of a revision, he is left with no option but to execute a no deal Brexit. MP's will thus be seen not as knocking back a flawed WA, but as attempting to thwart the results of the referendum.

And that is an extremely dangerous course of action for Parliament to follow.

Wordsmith
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Keir Starmer proposing just that motion in the House at this moment. “Unprecedented Times” he calls it. At least we agree on something!
Irrespective of what happens in the coming weeks, whilst the Tories select their next leader, the numbers in the House haven’t changed.
Deja Vu springs to mind.
Starmer is a one trick pony, without Brexit he would be hidden in labours or even the liberal back benches. former DPP despite never having prosecuted with a history of vindictiveness, sound familiar?
 

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