is the army still victorian ??

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by whytry, Feb 27, 2005.

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  1. do you think the problems with retention etc and recruiting is because of the old fasioned way the army is run?
  2. Can you give some specific examples please or is this just another "I've been f*cked over" rant.
  3. I'd like to think its because of the "new" fashioned way the army is run!

    Then again we could bring in a team of style guru's,spin doctors, image consultants and other liberal drug taking hangers on for a image make over but the household cavalry are a bit busy at the moment :lol:
  4. sure in a recruiting role..........i have to tell mummy and daddy how good it is !!! i feel like telling them the na , your right , ive been fucked over for 15 years and am getting bitter..............but the armys stance on modern policy should move a littlt with the times......................................change isnt a dirty word...........
  5. retention is a large problem , with not only choclate frogs but lads and lasses in there mature years..........................there must be a reason for them to find it necessary to jump ship into 3 bde civ div.....
  6. No, but sh*te is and your head's full of it.
  7. Like it or not, at the core of the reason for having an army is the same as it's always been. To go where the government needs us to be and be nasty to the enemy.

    There is no way that it can be done in a PC way. No amount of briefings on Health & Safety, Equal Opertunities or Soldiers in the Community will ever change that. Where the trouble is, is by the army thinking, or should that be the government thinking, that you can combine civilian peacetime principles with an army that does not always have peaceful civilian activities, leaves the soldiers left in a state of confusion.

    Examples? Well, you are taught to be aggresive in the attack, fight hard and seize you objective, while at the same time cause no collateral damage, not to kill the enemy if that individual has given up and not treat prisoners in any way roughly.

    You are supposed to check for signs of life on a casualty and if you don't find any (as per your Battlefield First Aid flip book) just leave them, but at the same time care about them as a human being up to that point.

    You have to treat minorities equally on race and sexual grounds, but you cannot treat them like the reast of the lads incase you offend them.

    With soft fluffy lines drawn in the sand like that is it no wonder that lots of soldiers from all ranks, arms and services call it a day because if they make a mistake they know that they will be taken to the cleaners with no support from the top.

    Bring back the good old days of Victorian soldiering where you knew whoever you were fighting were enemies of the Empire and there was no doubt that you were doing right and it was for Queen & Country.
  8. Youv,e got my vote P-P.

    Glad I retired some 8 years ago.Dobt that I would/could put up with the sh-t they come out with nowadays.

    Or is it like my kids tell me, that,' Im just a grumpy old man'. :? :? :?
  9. Sorry about the spelling in my last post, the word should have been doubt and not dobt. :oops: :oops: :oops:
  10. Are you really in a recruitng role ? Because I seriously think you are not the person to do this type of thing. I feel like tellimg them the facts ? what facts ? If you think the army jiff you over try it out here in the real world, NO-ONE gives a shitte about you here its real dog eat dog

    Can you seriously say that in 15 yrs you got fcuk all out of it ?> I mean why stay that long if its been so bad ? I can guareentee that I have been fcuked over much much more than you have in my time, there are at least 2 bods on this site know what I'm talking about, and I have no great bitterness against the army. I am bitter against certain individuals but the army no
  11. Oh! for the days when a wog was a wog, officers were gentlemen, other ranks knew their place, fairies were confined to the bottom of the garden, ladies were decorative compliant subservient souls, political correctness meant voting conservative and the sun never set on the empire!

    Don't advocate going back to that but whatever happened to the fit trained soldier, i.e. one who in all conditions of battle using ground and cover proficient in all weapons can close with the enemy and kill him (or her)? To achieve that (most un-PC) aim tough and realistic training, developed over the history of the British army, must be employed. If THAT is Victorian then I'm all for it.
    To dilute it is not progress.

    The initiator of this thread failed to offer a solution to his perceived impression of the old fashioned concepts of training and values extant in the army (moral and physical courage, integrity, flexibility, fitness, initiative, knowledge, etc). I firmly believe it IS possible to maintain those standards of world acknowledged professionalism while adapting to changing societal mores.

    Change what needs changing though don't fix what aint broke.
  12. The US has had to increase bonus' to improve both retention and recruitment. With your great pay rate I would think soldiering would be very competitive with the military getting the cream of the crop. You should have a waiting list.
  13. I suspect the army is Elizabethan, rather than Victorian (sadly Queen Victoria passed away some time ago). I am no expert in the description of eras, but I am sure that the current era could not possibly be described as Victorian...


    This banality aside, you have not had a good response so far, have you?

  14. hellfyyr, posting on ARRSE isn't some childish competition to see how many replies you can clock up. If you find the subject matter interesting then read it. If you feel you would like to add to the comment, post on it. But comments like that, off topic as well, may point to the reason that you don't seem to be the most popular poster on ARRSE at the moment.

    Can we get back to the subject in hand before any more children deside to post sh1t.
  15. I suspect that if the Army was still run on "Victorian" grounds then there would have been a far faster resolution to the Iraq conflict, no one would be facing trial for being nasty to prisoners, the originator of the post would be in the "glass house" for whining, manning wouldn't be an issue as we would be press ganging anyone we felt like, press reports would all be favourable, slaughtering entire villages would be rewarded with decorations, all guchi (sp?) kit would be outlawed and arrse would be unable to exist in any way, shape or form.

    Amazing how we have the majority of the site complaining that the Army has become too PC and cushy whilst others are still whining that it hasn't become PC and cushy enough.

    You'll be asking for paid over time, industrial tribunals and the right to strike next.