Is the Army in Breach of Minimum Wage Regulations

Is the Army in Breach of the Minimum Wage

  • Yes we are - but be quiet about it because Soldiers can be treated poorly

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes - but nothing wiil happen because the CoC has no morale courage to raise it

    Votes: 13 27.1%
  • No - we're not clock watching trade unionists

    Votes: 22 45.8%
  • Who cares - I'm in it for the dress up thing

    Votes: 13 27.1%

  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
#1
The BBC is running with a minimum wage story at the moment BBC News - Working for less than the minimum wage and it got me thinking - is the Army in breach of these regulations?

In the case of a junior Tom on £47.00 a day in the TA, working 8-4, they are on £5.87 an hour. Ok if they are under 21, but what if they are over 21?

However, in the field we generally work longer hours - more like 12 to 16 hours a day. At 12 hours the Army is paying that TA soldier £3.91, dramatically below the minimum wage.

So .... are we in breach? Who is responsible - the Pl Comd? Pl Sgt? Coy Comd, CO? or Liam Fox.

Will we see clock watching introduced - we stop working when we breach a certain time limit ( like we do now for armoured vehicles).

References

vrf_rates_pay_2011-2012 Territory Army_non_commissioned - The Armed Forces Community

•£6.08 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over
•£4.98 - the 18-20 rate
•£3.68 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18
•£2.60 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship
 
#4
Interesting - genuine question - why?
Because it get complicated when they are sat on their arse on a weekend but still getting paid.
 
#5
And we are not paid an hourly rate. But if you work 12 - 16 hours a day "in the field" do you go home for the hours you are not working? Hang on...don't answer that.
 
#7
Section 37(1) of the National Minimum Wage Act states that members of HM Armed Forces do not qualify.

Given the considerable subsidies available to Forces personnel it's not as simple as in other jobs.
 
#8
Who is not entitled to the National Minimum Wage : Directgov - Employment

If you are a member of the armed forces, you are not entitled to the National Minimum Wage. This includes reservists and people who assist in the activities of the cadet forces (the Combined Cadet Force, Sea Cadet Corps, Army Cadet Force and Air Training Corps) as Cadet Force Adult Volunteers (CFAVs). Your entitlement to the National Minimum Wage outside your activities as a reservist or CFAV is not affected.
 
#9
Because it get complicated when they are sat on their arse on a weekend but still getting paid.
I knew there was a good reason for it.

Unlike some regulars I know that have made an art form out of sitting around for hours at the Medical Centre - record for one of my crew was four hours :)
 
#10
Pyianno/ BV_Tech - thanks for that.

A little unfair on the TA though as they do not get all the benefits ( and rightly so) - healthcare, SFA, CEA etc as they are part time workers.

So, if a TA junior were to work for 31 hours over a weekend ( Fri 1900 - Sun 1200 ) under min wage it would be £188.48 per weekend, instead they get £94.

Hardly an advert for the TA.
 
#11
Pyianno/ BV_Tech - thanks for that.

A little unfair on the TA though as they do not get all the benefits ( and rightly so) - healthcare, SFA, CEA etc as they are part time workers.

So, if a TA junior were to work for 31 hours over a weekend ( Fri 1900 - Sun 1200 ) under min wage it would be £188.48 per weekend, instead they get £94.

Hardly an advert for the TA.
They could always become a Special Constable and get paid nowt?
 
#12
Pyianno/ BV_Tech - thanks for that.

A little unfair on the TA though as they do not get all the benefits ( and rightly so) - healthcare, SFA, CEA etc as they are part time workers.

So, if a TA junior were to work for 31 hours over a weekend ( Fri 1900 - Sun 1200 ) under min wage it would be £188.48 per weekend, instead they get £94.

Hardly an advert for the TA.
Next you'll be complaining when the toms only get 2 days instead of 2.5 days for a weekend?

Back in your box theres a good fellow.
 
#14
Pyianno/ BV_Tech - thanks for that.

A little unfair on the TA though as they do not get all the benefits ( and rightly so) - healthcare, SFA, CEA etc as they are part time workers.

So, if a TA junior were to work for 31 hours over a weekend ( Fri 1900 - Sun 1200 ) under min wage it would be £188.48 per weekend, instead they get £94.

Hardly an advert for the TA.
less the 8-16 hrs that they would be asleep, plus doc another couple of hours for meal breaks and a bit more for showers and ablutions...then that weekend that they have a spot of AT, a smoker and a few pints, that's not work either...

...and it goes on...
 
#15
A little unfair on the TA though as they do not get all the benefits ( and rightly so)

<snipped>

Hardly an advert for the TA.
Your healtchare comment off target - when they get duty injuries they should get the full medical support.

I remember a few TA guys injured on duty. NHS told them they should get their physio etc. via the regulars since they were not civvie injured. As a result one is now classed as disabled (tortion testicles - no nuts) although it was admitted timely treatment could have avoided it. This was late 80s and it seems from your attitude this is still fair game.
 
#16
Section 37(1) of the National Minimum Wage Act states that members of HM Armed Forces do not qualify.

Given the considerable subsidies available to Forces personnel it's not as simple as in other jobs.
ISTR that the operational allowance was raised to take into account 'hours worked' for the lowest paid on Herrick, so that the minimum wage was effectively being paid to those out there. I'll look for a link to support this.
 
#17
Pyianno/ BV_Tech - thanks for that.

A little unfair on the TA though as they do not get all the benefits ( and rightly so) - healthcare, SFA, CEA etc as they are part time workers.

So, if a TA junior were to work for 31 hours over a weekend ( Fri 1900 - Sun 1200 ) under min wage it would be £188.48 per weekend, instead they get £94.

Hardly an advert for the TA.
It is 'service' rather than 'employment'. If you want simply 'employment' then get a second job at weekends.

If you want to serve - the whole point - then accept what you're given or don't sign up. Simple as.
 
#18
i seem to recall working out my hourly rate at RMAS - it was something like 33p p/h!
 
#19
ISTR that the operational allowance was raised to take into account 'hours worked' for the lowest paid on Herrick, so that the minimum wage was effectively being paid to those out there. I'll look for a link to support this.
There is this. I also meant that forces personnel are often insulated from commercial rates for lots of essential expenditure so costs are necessarily lower.
 
#20
Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body Fortieth Report – 2011 said:
National Minimum Wage
2.19 The Armed Forces are exempt from the National Minimum Wage (NMW) legislation, but MOD is committed to acting within its spirit. Junior Ranks across all Services worked on average 44 hours per week during 2009-10, giving an hourly base pay rate of £7.42. The October 2009 NMW8 rates were £5.80 per hour for those aged at least 22 and £4.83 per hour for those aged 18-21.
2.20 However, any Junior Ranks aged 22 or over working 57 or more hours per week, or younger personnel working 68 or more hours could potentially have earned less than the NMW9. Following increases to NMW rates from October 2010, the weekly working hours required to breach the NMW rates fell to 55 and 67 hours per week for the respective age groups.
2.21 The hours worked by those on operations or at sea are much higher10 than average, so there is a greater risk that such individuals will breach the NMW thresholds over a 12 month period. For those aged 22 and above, personnel would need to spend 203-272 days a year at sea or on operations (dependent on Service) to fall below the NMW. However, if Operational Allowance and LSA were included in the calculation, nobody would breach the NMW.
Footnote 10 referred to in the last paragraph reads:
"10 61.1 hours for the Royal Navy, 68.2 for the Army and 62.3 for the RAF."
 

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