Is the American Empire in Decline?

#1
Are we in an era when The American Empire is in decline? History tells us that all previous empires have collapsed, usually catastrophically.
Examples: Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Byzantium, Spanish, French, British, Russian. Of course this may take another 50 to 100 years or so, but is it on the cards?

Symptoms are:
Military adventurism with extreme predjudice resulting in a drawing back and isolation leading to eventual annihilation

Declining birthrate and uncontrolled immigration.

Political incompetents......lack of will?

Weak society..."Bread & Circuses" ?

Inabilty to influence outside events.

ps: Please no Americans denying the word Empire. You haven't stopped expanding since the first Indian was dispossessed of his land over 230 years ago. (OK - you paid for Alaska)
 
#2
Hardly an empire - they rule America, well parts of it, after the Mafia, Cubans, Mexicans, etc etc etc etc, an Empire is conquering and ruling for years and years, Something really that only the Romans and British have done, possibly Russia with a bit of imagination
 
#3
Just thought about it and to confirm my above, Mention Empire to anyone and they either think Roman or British - try it bet it works..............
 
#4
shagnasty said:
Are we in an era when The American Empire is in decline?
The 1 hour 33 minutes video essay from John Pilger on ITV1 last Monday suggests so, mainly out of attempts by populations to regain control of their own destinys. The explanation of the current Venezuela and Bolivian situation was very interesting with Hugo Chavez suggesting that the idea of democracy had come of age for Latin America. (The really scary bit for me was the privatisation of basic services like water and energy by US corporations and the marginalisation of the poor - sounds a bit like the sale of our basic services to the French, Germans and the US).

I know absolutely nothing of the background to the commercial domination of Latin America by the USA, so I would be grateful if anyone could suggest a suitable reading list. I was horrified by the explanation of the domination of South Amercia given by various ex-CIA bods, but I suppose I was just being "innocent".
 
#5
Jeremy - Chavez is to democracy what Mugabe is to democracy -discuss. The north Americans have supported all sorts of nasty people as long as they were anti communist. Chavez is an old style facist who got wise and realised how to play the democracy game (probably whilst he was in prison for a failed coup). He has played it pretty well, but he is still an old fashioned facist.

Yes the American empire is in decline - militarily still the most powerful nation on earth, but look at the economics and China is fast encroaching.
 
#6
It's a popular and dare I say uncontroversial discussion topic but you need to look at the realities. Like events are not always the same.

Difference between the US and previous 'empires' is that the US is simply much bigger (300 million ppl). Whereas the British and Romans had a small 'core' population ruling a wider world (inherently unsustainable), it's the opposite with the US - just some scatterred islands and outposts.

Ultimately you have to look at what will replace it. The US is the largest native English speaking nation, the largest western liberal democracy. It's political and cultural reach is unchallenged as it's the intermediary - eg. it's hard to find a Chinese person that speaks Spanish.

In future it'll likely be a multi-polar world, really not much difference from today.
 
#8
The American Empire is a different beast, a new beast.

We went pinching nations and their kit with the worlds best Army, and serviced and protected it with the worlds best Navy.

Now your Yank is a more cunning, low beast altogether. They are using cultureal methods. From Hoolywood to McDonalds, Music to Microsoft. The message is, think like us and use our stuff and you to can be rich. It's quite clever, but poeple are starting to see it for what it is.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
Yep
 
#11
Their world-wide influence is in decline as a result of some dodgy decisions made by the current incumbent. They're less able to gain compliance through persuasion as they've lost a lot of trust, and are now having to rely more on threat of force to get their way.

Their economy is looking a bit shaky, but still underpins everyone elses (see the latest mortgage situation).

Culturally, they're the widest-spread in the anglosphere and reach widely into other areas, although in fairness their own culture draws heavily on other pre-existing ones.

Looking groggy, but not yet on the canvas would be my summary.
 
#12
They're certainly hated enough to be a bona fide empire. In decline? If they're chased from Iraq they've got problems. If the Euro replaces the dollar as the international oil currency they've got problems. If Russia seriously re-arms they've got problems. If there's a major economic crisis and the much abused US poor rebel - no welfare state to soften the blow - they've got problems.

The biggest single mistake they made in Iraq was not to award the conquered population with US citizenship, and make Iraq a US state. That's what the Roman Empire used to do. The vast majority of Iraqis would have loved it. They’d have embraced the American dream. Instead the wretched Seps pretended it wasn’t an old fashioned colonial war and invented a load of guff about WMD and Osama which no one believed. So maybe they’ll just die of stupidity.
 
#13
annakey said:
They're certainly hated enough to be a bona fide empire. In decline? If they're chased from Iraq they've got problems. If the Euro replaces the dollar as the international oil currency they've got problems. If Russia seriously re-arms they've got problems. If there's a major economic crisis and the much abused US poor rebel - no welfare state to soften the blow - they've got problems.

The biggest single mistake they made in Iraq was not to award the conquered population with US citizenship, and make Iraq a US state. That's what the Roman Empire used to do. The vast majority of Iraqis would have loved it. They’d have embraced the American dream. Instead the wretched Seps pretended it wasn’t an old fashioned colonial war and invented a load of guff about WMD and Osama which no one believed. So maybe they’ll just die of stupidity.
Surely that would have made it an even bigger magnet for the Muslim insurgents.
 
#14
Sigh. The USA and India are the ONLY major world powers with decent demographics. US survived a Civil War, 2 World Wars, the Great Depression, and VietNam. In fact, each of these events made it even stronger in the long run. Same could be true of Iraq.

The USA will remain the dominant world power long after our lifetimes.
 
#15
Vimeiro said:
annakey said:
They're certainly hated enough to be a bona fide empire. In decline? If they're chased from Iraq they've got problems. If the Euro replaces the dollar as the international oil currency they've got problems. If Russia seriously re-arms they've got problems. If there's a major economic crisis and the much abused US poor rebel - no welfare state to soften the blow - they've got problems.

The biggest single mistake they made in Iraq was not to award the conquered population with US citizenship, and make Iraq a US state. That's what the Roman Empire used to do. The vast majority of Iraqis would have loved it. They’d have embraced the American dream. Instead the wretched Seps pretended it wasn’t an old fashioned colonial war and invented a load of guff about WMD and Osama which no one believed. So maybe they’ll just die of stupidity.
Surely that would have made it an even bigger magnet for the Muslim insurgents.
I suspect the opposite's true. Arabs and Persians throughout the region - the middle of the road, non-extremist majority, who like a beer, snigger at the local Mullah and hate their current police state - would have demanded a Septic invasion.
 
#16
That's not what the Roman Empire used to do, as it happens.

The Roman Empire used to conquer lands and then make these lands Provinces, but the inhabitants did not gain citizenship automatically. The first time blanket citizenship occured was in the third century.

Just to tidy up your "fact". And comparison to the Roman Empire and the US may well be a good one - don't thinkt hat everywhere that was conquered by the Romans was peaceful. Plenty of people didn't want to be ruled from Rome. The difference was Rome either crushed all opposition or withdrew from the troubled area. The US needs to learn.
 
#17
The_Goon said:
That's not what the Roman Empire used to do, as it happens.

The Roman Empire used to conquer lands and then make these lands Provinces, but the inhabitants did not gain citizenship automatically. The first time blanket citizenship occured was in the third century.

Just to tidy up your "fact". And comparison to the Roman Empire and the US may well be a good one - don't thinkt hat everywhere that was conquered by the Romans was peaceful. Plenty of people didn't want to be ruled from Rome. The difference was Rome either crushed all opposition or withdrew from the troubled area. The US needs to learn.
Fair enough. :D

The poor old Seps could have looked back sixty years. Japan and Germany were broken utterly, with the former nuked, before being occupied. Iraq in no way was similarly smashed. The army was sent off disgruntled, unpaid and with their weapons. The occupying forces then failed, consistently, from day one, in their most basic duty: security provision. I don’t see how any empire which makes such mistakes could survive.
 
#18
Mmmm. sounds like I'm late on this read.

An earlier respondent mentioned a John Pilger prog. on the same subject. God forbid I am ever in the same room as this leftie anti- British, anti-American journo.

No. My post was a serious attempt to get a slant on our allies failure to grasp the realities and to acknowledge history has an impact on how to behave today......maybe then they will learn before it's too late. They are after all our best hope!
 

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