Is TA P Coy good enough for regular airborne units?

#1
I am in 4 Para at the moment and will be doing P Coy in December. I am also doing AOSB main board in July with the aim of getting into Sandhurst and commissioning into a regular regiment.

I'm aware the TA do not do the 20 miler and that some of the times needed to complete each event are marginally higher.

If I have done the TA P coy and want to go into a regular airborne unit will the TA P Coy be treated the same as the regular P Coy?
 
#2
On paper, it probably is - but if you join an airborne unit, you'd be wise to do it again. The perception that you've taken the easy route is something that can hang over your entire career.
 

Nehustan

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#3
I am in 4 Para at the moment and will be doing P Coy in December. I am also doing AOSB main board in July with the aim of getting into Sandhurst and commissioning into a regular regiment.

I'm aware the TA do not do the 20 miler and that some of the times needed to complete each event are marginally higher.

If I have done the TA P coy and want to go into a regular airborne unit will the TA P Coy be treated the same as the regular P Coy?
I might be wrong but I was fairly sure once you get the lid and wings they're yours. Members of IV/X/XV did service with regular units and didn't forgo their P Company.
 
#4
Is there the possibility of a TA soldier doing the all-arms course then?

Edit: Wikipedia says TA can do all arms course but I've asked a few guys in the cadre and they don't have a scooby.
 

Nehustan

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#5
Is there the possibility of a TA soldier doing the all-arms course then?

Edit: Wikipedia says TA can do all arms course but I've asked a few guys in the cadre and they don't have a scooby.
This has been discussed on here before, so I will give you the answer that was given at the time (to save you the search). The bottom line was if you can get your CO to sanction the course as useful to the unit, or it has use to the regulars (i.e. 24 Commando etc) then perhaps
 
#6
Duke will know the answer, but I'd guess the following;

1. If you go on attachment for a tour/exercise then no need to do P Coy, you might have to do some kind of induction cadre on getting to Battalion i.e. tabs of various lengths, wpns tests etc.

2. If you want to go regs, you will likely have to do Depot from Day 1, week 1 like everyone else...including P Coy

I went through Depot with a lad who had been 4 Para left them and moved to London, joined 10 Para, then went Regular...he did P Coy three times...volunteered for it with 10 Para but pretty sure he could have got away without having to...clearly this was a few years ago now.
 
#8
My mate had his wings from STAB meat bombs and got to keep his lid and wings with no requirement to redo P Coy. Then agin he joined the Slime; HTH Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
If a lad from TA Para Regt / Airborne unit went to another Regt (whether regs or TA) it would either be up to his CoC or the individual as to whether he would leave his wings up plus there would be no need to do P Coy in a non-airborne unit.

TA Para Regt lads tended not to wear them in Depot either because it attracted extra attention from the staff for 'big-timing' or because the CO/RSM at the time would say yes/no. I recall seeing one lad who had been in the USMC and he had his gold wings up...this was just as he was passing out of depot so assume his staff had ok'd it, not sure what reaction he would have got when he reached Battalion though!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#9
1. Your TA pass will not be counted for commissioned service in a regular airborne unit. You will need to do P Coy again.

2. It is possible to do regular all arms P Coy from 4 Para, and a number have done so before attending RMAS. They have usually held a TA commission so had to do it as an officer with all of the fun and games that entails. Doing it as a junior rank may not be enough for your potential regular CO so he may well send you back for another visit if he feels that you have done so to avoid doing P Coy as an officer.
 
#10
1. Your TA pass will not be counted for commissioned service in a regular airborne unit. You will need to do P Coy again.
Depends on the unit. Two of my friends (1R SIGNALS, 1 RLC) both did TA P-Coy (one as a Pte, one as a Lt), and both wore their wings through RMAS and on to their Capbadges with no issues.
 
#12
That's what I loved about the green: too many people making up their own rules on the hoof regardless of the regs. Earned wings - whether as a regular or reservist - should be worn regardless of whether someone in Depot might get a sad on. It was the same with stable belts and shoulder titles: 'Get that/them ******/s off! We don't wear them in this Troop/Sqn/Regt... etc.'
 
#13
Earned wings - whether as a regular or reservist - should be worn regardless of whether someone in Depot might get a sad on.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I can only refer to my own Depot experience, but it would be a brave bloke to tell his training team '...sorry, I earned them, I'm wearing them...' as a crow you can do without the extra attention...they will know you were ex-TA or whatever thats enough to be getting on with.

The reason, as I understand it was because the majority of lads were not former Para trained so it was to ensure you all started from the same level with no-one standing out. That said a Para trained lad going to A.N Other depot / training establishment might be told to wear them...horses for courses.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#14
Depends on the unit. Two of my friends (1R SIGNALS, 1 RLC) both did TA P-Coy (one as a Pte, one as a Lt), and both wore their wings through RMAS and on to their Capbadges with no issues.

The wings are yours in perpetuity, although as Eggbanjo says it would be a brave or foolish crow who decided to fight against the decision of his DS in a training establishment.

Did your friends go straight to 216 or 13 Regt as Trp Comds, or transfer across at a later date? That may well have had some bearing on case?

Either way, the standard course of events is for newly commissioned officers to revisit the delights of P Coy unless they have already done All arms P Coy as a TA officer.
 
#15
Yep, I know the drill. Being ex-anything can be a curse on courses. But what's the point in awarding things (in perpetuity) only to be told to take them off? I've even heard of (and know of one) blokes being toold to take medals off on parades, because of this, that or the other (reviewing officer not having any for example), or because of some totally misguided and downright wrong notion that certain issues can't be worn - despite DCIs stating differently.

Would a RMR reservist who's passed the Commando Course still be exempt P Coy if he enlisted as a regular para?
 
#16
Depends on the unit. Two of my friends (1R SIGNALS, 1 RLC) both did TA P-Coy (one as a Pte, one as a Lt), and both wore their wings through RMAS and on to their Capbadges with no issues.
I remember being told that it was unwise to wear wings at RMAS should (with a significant stare in my direction) you pass PCoy and go on to do the jumps, as they would be a shouting magnet. There were a fair few bods going from ACF to 10 Para and then Sandhurst back then.

A friend who was there in 83 tells of a bloke with SAS wings up who was put in Rowallan (presumably for leadership deficiencies).
 
#17
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I can only refer to my own Depot experience, but it would be a brave bloke to tell his training team '...sorry, I earned them, I'm wearing them...' as a crow you can do without the extra attention...they will know you were ex-TA or whatever thats enough to be getting on with.

The reason, as I understand it was because the majority of lads were not former Para trained so it was to ensure you all started from the same level with no-one standing out. That said a Para trained lad going to A.N Other depot / training establishment might be told to wear them...horses for courses.
A bit of a side track but I remember one poor transferee from REME turning up on his first squadron parade at RSigs trade training with his wings, acused of being a walt as his time as a reg never had a PCoy in it. Said he had been TA, troop staffy phoned a contact at Para depot - who said they had no record of him, he phoned his mum to get his course cert out his stuff at home in the attic. She couldn't find it. Orders, 21 days ROPs, beasted for walting, badge ripped off his combat jacket etc.
First weekend afterwards stuck on a guard duty. Weekend after went home got his cert and presented it to the staffy on the Monday. to be fair on the DS they were mortified and made sure all the cadre on the camp knew he was legit after that.
 
#18
Nothing like a bit of 'pour le encouragement les autres' is there?

If I'd been a TA para who'd done an op tour with a regular battalion and put some serious roundage downrange (as many have), and then ended up at Depot as a 'crow' only to be told to bin my wings in case I upset someone, then I'd be tempted to ask if I should bin my OSM as well?
 

Nehustan

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#19
A friend who was there in 83 tells of a bloke with SAS wings up who was put in Rowallan (presumably for leadership deficiencies).
Talk of Rowallan company makes me smile...I had two mates there at the same time...one from school (MTS) from a non-mil background who longed to be an officer...one I knew from Oxford from an aristo background whose father's family was steeped in army tradition but wanted nothing to do with the army; father went to Eton, mate went to Bryanston...enough said. The latters answer to his E&E jaunt was to ring us and get us to drive him to depot, resourceful I guess...but hardly good drills...looked a right mess as I recall...
 
#20
Talk of Rowallan company makes me smile...I had two mates there at the same time...one from school (MTS) from a non-mil background who longed to be an officer...one I knew from Oxford from an aristo background whose father's family was steeped in army tradition but wanted nothing to do with the army; father went to Eton, mate went to Bryanston...enough said. The latters answer to his E&E jaunt was to ring us and get us to drive him to depot, resourceful I guess...but hardly good drills...looked a right mess as I recall...

On one of my infrequent cross country runs over Barossa common I happened upon some poor sods in green doing something silly with a locker. RoCo, I remember thinking to myself.
 
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