Is Old Bill Going to Get a Raw Deal

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It is no different to the thousands of companies that have adjusted their cost base over the last twenty years or so.

First you examine your biggest cost, salaries.
Then you see why, bad contracts of employment.
Get rid of those on old contract who won't change.
Watch the majority switch to new terms and conditions
Employ future staff on business sensible terms.
 
Theres 43 regional police forces for 143,734 (as of March 2010) regular police, of which the Met takes up 33,367 and Dumfries & Galloway only 517. There must be plenty of HQs and staffs that could either be merged or binned entirely but that would involve those in power actually risking their chances of staying in power, still can always dream that we might get some politicians who actually put the public good ahead of their own.
 

Empty_Vacuum

Old-Salt
Your analogy doesn't work though does it?... My understanding is that we have 'one army' with one chief of defence staff who is in command. Whereas we have several police forces and no-one single police officer in control, the ACPO is toothless.
Yes I understand we have a CGS but what I meant was that we have infantry regiments with local ties and their own CoC (and rightly so) and yet people complain that we have police forces based upon geographical areas. Even if we were to have one 'super force', those seperate CoCs (albeit in a different format) would still exist. Yes the odd post here and there would go and yes it would be slightly more efficient but is that worth the risk of losing local knowledge, expertise and focus?
 

oldgadge

Old-Salt
I am sure many inhabitants of the once prosperous mining communities of the UK will sympathise deeply with these hard done to policemen & women, what price working class rights now?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
What local knowledge will be lost. I live on the outskirts of a large town and most plod doont know my road, I rarely see any even in a car and I suspect most only know the court, the custody unit and home!
 
Everyone is having to bite the bullet with these cuts. So why should we question the fact that the old bill are having to take a hit aswell? They are paid comensurate with their role, and a very handsome tickle it is too at £23.245 as a newly qualified copper, so i won't be shedding any tears for them. As far as i am concerned they are a complete waste of time, unless they are on the beat doing the job they're supposed to do, which they very often aren't. Assuming of course they can actually be bothered, it is often many hours after the event when they turn up, and the case is never followed up? Basically, if you are unfortunate enough to suffer a crime, you will be very lucky to actually encounter a copper to investigate the offence. You'll be given a crime number and told to give that to your insurance company as proof the crime actually took place...Pathetic really! The Police don't deserve anything but the same treatment as the rest of us, so unglucklich!
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
I am sure many inhabitants of the once prosperous mining communities of the UK will sympathise deeply with these hard done to policemen & women, what price working class rights now?
That's almost thirty years ago grandpa. The blokes who gave you a good kicking are now largely retired on good pensions and laughing their d1cks off at the rest of us.

P.S. It served you right for trying to impose an extra-democratic political solution on the rest of us - live by the sword, die by the... etc etc.
 

Empty_Vacuum

Old-Salt
What local knowledge will be lost. I live on the outskirts of a large town and most plod doont know my road, I rarely see any even in a car and I suspect most only know the court, the custody unit and home!
Well how would the Chief Constable of the United Kingdom Police Force, who's most likely to be based in London, know what a relatively small northern town needs? He won't care, he'll just focus on the big cities!

And yes I'm defending plod! I understand that cuts must be made and I fully accept that. What I don't accept is the constant be-littling of the police, which I see day in day out. I grew up rarely seeing my father because he was one of those coppers. He didn't rush up the promotion ladder like the graduates of today but he took his time building experience after his military service. I have seen him work 21 hour shifts for 11 days straight because he is now (allegedly) regarded as one of the top of his field in the force, if not the UK. He hasn't been paid overtime for a good 15 years (because of his is a DCI), yet his contract said nothing about working such hours. And I know from my (limited) knowledge that there are many like him serving!
 
I think when the some coppers were charged or threaten to be charged for using their firearms, the rest of the armed coppers did refuse carry them (Or something similar).
it was after the harry stanley case, from how it was told to me a large majority (nearly all) met firearms officers refused to carry, it took a personal visit and promises from the commish to get them to pick back up
 
Back on track.It makes no difference how many hours you work during the last three years,it's what rank(acting or otherwise) that determines the pension.

There are some lazy officers and staff that need removing from post and their overpaid jobs,but it needs management with balls to do it.At present most of the management are protecting their own arses too much to worry about what everyone else is doing.

Some forces are coroborating key aspects of the job in an effort to save money,in reality it's costing more in some areas,there are lots of staff redundancies which are deserved,but even then,the chosen few seem to go out with a golden handshake.
 
It seems that pay cuts for PCs are on the way, and the Home secretary is additionally demanding a pay freeze for the next two years.

As if that wasn't enough, Call Me Dave has today said that "the police were being let down by a system that has far too many officers in back-office roles". This after sending a 'hot knife' through those back room jobs and therefore forcing police officers to carry them out.

Another nail in policings coffin (the final one?) is that next week sees a review of police wages and conditions where Tom Winsor will consider cuts to overtime payments, and housing and travel allowances, and will also suggest changes to shift patterns, and procedures for retirement and redundancy.

So, will these actions give us a more efficient police service, or will it all end in tears?
What's your opinion on this Whet?

I guess there is a possibility that your all in favour of this. I mean, you are one of those folk who thinks taxing the 'richer' in order to provide handouts to the 'poorer' is a jolly good idea. Reducing the pay of civil servants releases funds that can be ring-fenced for the likes of you.

Or do you sympathise with the financial plight of the Bobby and offer to forsake £1,000 of your benefits this year to help readdress the cuts?

Somebody has to pay for the financial mess left by Brown and New Labour. And I seriously doubt you're going to step forward and pull your weight in the process.
 
Stacker and BravoBravo you've got your own thread to keep throwing the same repetetive insults. Its getting a bit tedious sifting through your posts on any thread you enter when no matter the subject it becomes another slanging match.
 
Indeed, my apologies.

I'll leave Spacker to have the last word, should he feel the need.
 
Well how would the Chief Constable of the United Kingdom Police Force, who's most likely to be based in London, know what a relatively small northern town needs? He won't care, he'll just focus on the big cities!

And yes I'm defending plod! I understand that cuts must be made and I fully accept that. What I don't accept is the constant be-littling of the police, which I see day in day out. I grew up rarely seeing my father because he was one of those coppers. He didn't rush up the promotion ladder like the graduates of today but he took his time building experience after his military service. I have seen him work 21 hour shifts for 11 days straight because he is now (allegedly) regarded as one of the top of his field in the force, if not the UK. He hasn't been paid overtime for a good 15 years (because of his is a DCI), yet his contract said nothing about working such hours. And I know from my (limited) knowledge that there are many like him serving!
Explain why he should receive overtime when he is being paid £53.919 PA? If the police don't wish to be belittled, then they should try and serve the public need, rather than expect the rest of us to care about their pay and perks. Everyone is feeling the pinch, and it's inevitable that they should too. If they wish to regain the publics trust, perhaps they could justify their wages if they pinched more criminal collars instead? But that might mean leaving the station occasionally, and relying less on PCSO's to do it for them! Allegedly? Your dad is one of the best, if not the best in his field within the UK, and will also be eligible for the Competence related threshold payment scheme. In fact an average copper can qualify for this scheme irrespective of ability. Four very simple criteria qualify an officer of any substansive rank to this scheme, provided they have served one year at that rank... 1) Professional competence. 2) Commitment to the Job. 3) Relations to the public and colleagues. 4) Willingness to learn and adjust to new circumstances. Nothing too difficult about those qualities for anyone to achieve, but shouldn't those standards be the basic criteria for training police, rather than a gateway to more easy money? Besides if he didn't like the working conditions, i'm sure he'd leave wouldn't he?? So it can't be that bad can it???
 
My wife is a Health Care Assistant (Auxiliary Nurse) for the NHS. She looks after people in a stroke ward. Wipes bums, cleans spittle around old guys mouths, feeds, holds hands, loads of heavy lifting(stroke victims are very often, big, obese men). Occasionally someone is violent. Eight hour shifts with the odd 10 minutes to grab a brew, so on her feet all day. Loads of emotion and complaints from relatives. Crap managers in charge. She earns the huge amount of £6.98 per hour. It`s time the big differences in public sector pay was changed. Cops on 70k? They are the robbers, if they are getting that much. Get the lower paid on 20k and the top ones on no more than 3 or 4 times that. Until then, there will be no harmony in this country.
 

Timbo919

Swinger
Everyone is having to bite the bullet with these cuts. So why should we question the fact that the old bill are having to take a hit aswell? They are paid comensurate with their role, and a very handsome tickle it is too at £23.245 as a newly qualified copper, so i won't be shedding any tears for them. As far as i am concerned they are a complete waste of time, unless they are on the beat doing the job they're supposed to do, which they very often aren't. Assuming of course they can actually be bothered, it is often many hours after the event when they turn up, and the case is never followed up? Basically, if you are unfortunate enough to suffer a crime, you will be very lucky to actually encounter a copper to investigate the offence. You'll be given a crime number and told to give that to your insurance company as proof the crime actually took place...Pathetic really! The Police don't deserve anything but the same treatment as the rest of us, so unglucklich!
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. I always do everything that I can to whatever job I'm sent to, and I'm sure all my colleagues do the same. Unfortunately there are always going to be crimes that we can't solve, as you need to have witnesses, or some kind of evidence, and without those, the crime is going nowhere. There are loads of people like you that moan about police not doing anything, but it still doesn't stop you from calling us when something happens to you does it!
 
Then it would seem that rule should be changed.
In order to do that, you'd have to change the employment contract of ever copper outside of PSNI, CNC and Mod Plod. These forces are the only ones where recruits are contracted and trained to carry firearms from the beginning of their employment. For every other CivPlod, firearms duties are something they volunteer for.

You could not force the police officers now serving to carry firearms even if you wanted to. Serving CivPol are not recruited on their potential ability to be AFO's; as several coppers have pointed out on ARRSE, some of their brother officers should not be allowed batons or CS Spray, never mind a Gat.

Trying to change the employment contracts of CO19 etc, even if it is legally possible, would quickly result in AFO's across the country demanding to RTU. Which would leave politicans and other so-called VIP's with no armed close protection. And while out glorious leaders are happy to risk the lives of British citizens, they value their own rather more highly...
 
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