Is Old Bill Going to Get a Raw Deal

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I'm not saying it's wrong i'm just saying how it tends to work, Labour give to the poor and themselves, the Tories give to the rich and themselves.
No, Labour borrowed massively to give the poor some money that the poor would have to pay back plus interest in the future, only now its time to pay back the Tories are getting the blame.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Well it's a bit of divide and rule isn't it and they have to start somewhere. The unions can't really complain too much after it's happened to the coppers can they?
You think? Bob Crow could find fault with a free, five star, all expenses paid to the West Indies - probably because he'd view it as a step down from his usual style.
 
The news is not affecting their main suppliers though.



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Maybe the police will be bolstered by a newly formed National Gendarmerie... giving the Infantry something to do when we pull out of Afghan?
 

johno2499

Old-Salt
I don't pretend to know the answer to all this. All I can say is that I had inside knowledge of Police pay and conditions for 10 years from 2000. The truth is that Police Officers are definitely overpaid and that senior officers are seriously overpaid. "Rest day working" is out of control - and they still receive the pay for this if it is canceled at short notice. There are too many senior PCs and DCs on good money doing desk-bound jobs, not involving shift work, that could be done by civilians at half the cost. There is widespread abuse of the very generous sickness arrangements. Once induction training is over, personal fitness is not seriously addressed. There are far too many Police forces, each with it's highly expensive HQ and senior officer infrastructure. We really cannot go on like this for ever.
 
I understand that all police who carry guns are volunteers and that you cannot be forced to carry one. How would the politicos react if every officer on political persec duties downed weapons and said, 'yer on yer own cocker.'
 
I've been doing the job for 10 years now, and it's just turning into a piss take. We deserve the wages that we are paid, as we are spat on, threatened, assaulted and see death in many different guises. We often have to work (court) on our rest days because CPS can't be arsed to check our Duty State, and we often miss out on family time. We have to work the first half hour of overtime for feck all, and our new shift pattern now shows all 'late shifts' as 'early nights'. So yes, I think our wages should be left as they are. If they are frozen for two years, I could live with it, but they shouldn't f*ckin cut them. I know everyone has to do their bit, but slashing the Police when we are in recession and crime increasing is not the right thing to do................okay rant over.
No one should have a wage cut, I agree. But is there a proposed cut in basic pay or a cut in allowances?
 
I don't think this is thread "whet" hoped for when he started it?

It isn't turning into a coppers hate the Condems and everyone else piles into the coppers for being awkward.

You see Whet not everyone who works for a government organisation throws a fit when told they need to make cut backs. Some acknowledge that the mess the Labour clowns left behind has to be dealt with, and we all have to suck it up a bit.
 

Empty_Vacuum

Old-Salt
here is an idea, sack the county police forces and have one UK police force, there fore you only need one chief of police, you can cut down on the number of backroom jobs. None of this across border crap, one central intelligence system.

Or is that to simple.
Well then why don't we merge all the infantry into one super regiment? Or, god forbid, the whole army into a super regiment? That'd save money, that would cull the brass and that would make it more effecient. I hear you cry out, "Its tradition! What of history? What of established routes?". Well the same can be said of the police; they have their traditions and their routes, not to mention the differences caused by devolution.
 
I understand that all police who carry guns are volunteers and that you cannot be forced to carry one. How would the politicos react if every officer on political persec duties downed weapons and said, 'yer on yer own cocker.'
I think when the some coppers were charged or threaten to be charged for using their firearms, the rest of the armed coppers did refuse carry them (Or something similar).
 
I understand that all police who carry guns are volunteers and that you cannot be forced to carry one. How would the politicos react if every officer on political persec duties downed weapons and said, 'yer on yer own cocker.'
Then it would seem that rule should be changed.
 
Well then why don't we merge all the infantry into one super regiment? Or, god forbid, the whole army into a super regiment? That'd save money, that would cull the brass and that would make it more effecient. I hear you cry out, "Its tradition! What of history? What of established routes?". Well the same can be said of the police; they have their traditions and their routes, not to mention the differences caused by devolution.
Your analogy doesn't work though does it?... My understanding is that we have 'one army' with one chief of defence staff who is in command. Whereas we have several police forces and no-one single police officer in control, the ACPO is toothless.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
No, Labour borrowed massively to give the poor some money that the poor would have to pay back plus interest in the future, only now its time to pay back the Tories are getting the blame.
They are all the same it's just where the money goes that is different. Both line their pockets and the pockets of their supporters.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
There is no money thats for sure, a mate has a business and hasnt paid a rise to his staff for two years, they have been busy but when the works slows and interest rates go up he is in the poo. If they can peg interest rates down then the country has a chance of keeping costs under control.
As for my mate, he goes some months without any salary at all but then he can afford it. He is loyal to his staff and makes sure they are paid before he is but should interest rates rise that loyalty may end.
 
I'm sure that there are many officers who do earn their pay and perks.

However, the three examples below do make you stop to think.......

I did a Masters sailing course. The guy who ran it and owned the company was ex-Met'. Retired with full pension at 42 due to having a 'bad' knee injury allegedly done on the job. He admitted he did it playing rugby. It certainly didn't stop him moving about the boat in all weathers like a much younger man.

The former police chief of a large- ish northern town had done her full number of years. Her last year was paid but mostly spent playing golf and looking for a house in Portugal. Her leaving package was £250,000 plus a £70,000 per annum pension.

As a young engineer working at RAF Molesworth building cruise missile shelters in the late 80's, I got talking to a few plod who manned the gates and fences during the weekend dirty, unwashed lesbian protester vigils that occurred over the weekends. They told me they liked the extra hours and that their police bosses made sure anyone within a year (IIRC) of retirement did all the hours possible as their pensions were tied to their hours worked in the last year.

Piss me off ? You feckin bet it does. Rather like benefits, it's fine when there's enough in the kitty to pay for it but in a recession, why is it all so gold-plated ?

D_B
 
The Home Sec quite rightly pointed out that when savings are required, then the biggest single expenditure, ie wages, is going to be looked at.

I think they will leave salary alone, but change the rates of overtime and the occasions it can be earn't. Bank Holidays will be for TOIL only, no payment and other allowances that the Govt brought in, rather cleverly IMHO, instead of decent payrises over the last 10 years or so, will go.

ACPO won't really gve a toss because they are negotiate salaries for their own jobs and don't have a National Payscale. They are also busy building the ACPO empire. They created their own Records Office (ACRO) , I know because it is about 1/2 mile from where I live, and now charge £70 odd for a crb check that used to be £15 or similar. It is run by Hampshire's retired Deputy Chief Constable on £55k + perks, along with his DCC's pension. Very nice eh, no old boy's network there.

I think, in general, the Police accept they are going to share their part of the pain (still fail to see how Nick and Dave are in this with us), but Jarrod is right, hammer the Police who can't strike, then hit everyone else and say 'we did it to the plod'.

As for are they overpaid? Based on slaries, available online, I would say that the wages are on par with the Forces when you compare length of service. The Police don't have a long rank structure so long term PC's must rank alongside SNCO's, Inspectors and Chief Insps are on par with Majors, Superintendants/ Ch Supers with Lt Cols/Col etc etc, I don't see a huge disparity.

Once young in service PCs have paid their pension contributions then they probably take home about £1200/mth flat rate.

If they get offered overtime, they aren't going to turn it down, however I think this is where the screws will be turned.

Just my ten penneth
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
If a certain political party hadnt pissed a large sum of money up the wall, then maybe the cuts wouldnt even be happening. What do you expect the Tories to do? Carry on borrowing? Print some more money?
He's off again.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I'm sure that there are many officers who do earn their pay and perks.

As a young engineer working at RAF Molesworth building cruise missile shelters in the late 80's, I got talking to a few plod who manned the gates and fences during the weekend dirty, unwashed lesbian protester vigils that occurred over the weekends. They told me they liked the extra hours and that their police bosses made sure anyone within a year (IIRC) of retirement did all the hours possible as their pensions were tied to their hours worked in the last year.

Piss me off ? You feckin bet it does. Rather like benefits, it's fine when there's enough in the kitty to pay for it but in a recession, why is it all so gold-plated ?

D_B
The last bit shouldnt piss you off, in fact that was the norm in public jobs during the late 80's and early 90's. I was in BR (note I didnt say I worked) and pension was calculated on final annual earnings instead of sallary. Thus men aged 64 were doing 72 hour weeks and dying within months of leaving instead of winding down in their last 6 months and going on retirement planning courses such as we used to run for them!
 
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