Is Nato repeating the USSRs Afghan mistakes?

#1
Is Nato repeating the USSR's Afghan mistakes
By Alastair Leithead
BBC News, Kabul


There are different soldiers behind the gun, but the task ahead of them is just as daunting

Twenty years ago today the tanks and armoured cars started to rumble north out of Kabul as the Soviet Union began its withdrawal from Afghanistan after eight-and-a-half years of war.

The mujahideen, backed by money and weapons from an alliance of the United States, Britain, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, had beaten a world superpower.

Today the country is scattered with reminders of the Soviet occupation - you don't have to go far even in Kabul to stumble across the rusting wrecks they left behind.

The aptly named Zamir Kabulov first arrived in Afghanistan as a young Soviet diplomat in 1977 and has lived through the last turbulent 30 years of this country's misfortunes.
More on the link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7402887.stm
 
#2
Providing the politicians supply the massive amount of money needed for redevelopment then I do think that the troops are capable of defeating the enemy.
But long job, it took over ten years for UK to sort out the problem in Malaya and a great deal of work in the private sector, which USSR did not do will be required.
john
 
#3
The main mistake is the objective. The USA tries to establish strategical control over Afghanistan. The task is wrong itself. And it is impossible to resolve wrong task by right means.
 
#4
Here's a presidential candidate's view of it:
OBAMA: Right now, we don't have enough troops, and NATO hasn't provided enough troops because they are still angry about us going into Iraq.

Maybe that's still a factor, but it's tough to argue that it is still the factor. For starters, in many NATO countries, a majority or near-majority of public opinion opposes military troops just about anywhere in the Muslim world.

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjdmMTU1MTMxYjc3NmQ0MDZkOGZlYTg2MzI5NGU2MDQ=
Mind you, in the same speech, Mr Obama said the US hasn't sent enough Arabic interpreters to Afghanistan. :?

Article goes on to point up how most European nations spend around one-half as much (per cent) of GDP on defence as does America - despite AFG/IZ commitments.

As it happens, I think I agree with Sergey - and the prospect of a permanent transfer of NATO command in AFG to Unca Sam doesn't cheer me either.
 
#8
The quote in the BBC report from Ahmad Shah Ahmadzai, a mujahideen leader and an opponent of the Afghan government, puts the finger on what is a significant issue for some (many?) Afghans. Answering a question on how the Soviet occupation compared to today's (NATO) mission, he replied:

"To my opinion the ground situation is no different because the Soviets were imposing their Communist regime on us. The present forces - they are imposing their so-called democracy on us."
 
#9
Stonker said:
Well, puts him on the same "well-informed about The War On Terror" footing as that well-known Al Qaeda expert, John McCain. . . . .
I have a vivid memory of a woman who had just been appointed to a senior position in, I think, the Department of Homeland Security, saying 'Al Qaeda is a mainly Shia organisation' or words to that effect. Am I remembering this correctly?
 
#12
Yes - Simply by being there!
 
#13
#14
The trouble is that none of the politicians have read any history. Maybe they can't read anyway...

In the last few centuries the British Army has repeatedly marched and fought over this exact terrain. The Russians have always coveted Afghanistan, and recently have also suffered at the hands of the Afghans. All of this is well enough documented.

About time political 'leaders' went down to the local library and took some remedial reading lessons.
 
#15
Unsworth said:
The trouble is that none of the politicians have read any history. Maybe they can't read anyway...

In the last few centuries the British Army has repeatedly marched and fought over this exact terrain. The Russians have always coveted Afghanistan, and recently have also suffered at the hands of the Afghans. All of this is well enough documented.

About time political 'leaders' went down to the local library and took some remedial reading lessons.
Would they be able to read directions to the local library? :)
 
#16
The Soviets looked to hold a few major cities, maintain the illusion that the Afghan Communist Party where in control in those cities, launch a major offensive each year and bomb the shite out of the rest of Afghanistan.
ISAF/US Centcom don't have the whole of the Afghan population wanting to kill them unlike the Soviets but have to deal with a very belligerent Pushtu population who seem to be happy to send there husbands/son's to fight and die. The fire fight is being won constantly but there hearts and minds are not.
Unlike the Soviets, ISAF/Centcom do have the opportunity to change there minds. Lets hope that there is a big push in that direction.
 
#17
ostvic said:
The Soviets looked to hold a few major cities, maintain the illusion that the Afghan Communist Party where in control in those cities, launch a major offensive each year and bomb the shite out of the rest of Afghanistan.
ISAF/US Centcom don't have the whole of the Afghan population wanting to kill them unlike the Soviets but have to deal with a very belligerent Pushtu population who seem to be happy to send there husbands/son's to fight and die. The fire fight is being won constantly but there hearts and minds are not.
Unlike the Soviets, ISAF/Centcom do have the opportunity to change there minds. Lets hope that there is a big push in that direction.
Was there a referendum on that matter in Afghanistan? :D

Do you use crystal ball or coffee beans?
 
#18
Domovoy said:
Unsworth said:
The trouble is that none of the politicians have read any history. Maybe they can't read anyway...

In the last few centuries the British Army has repeatedly marched and fought over this exact terrain. The Russians have always coveted Afghanistan, and recently have also suffered at the hands of the Afghans. All of this is well enough documented.

About time political 'leaders' went down to the local library and took some remedial reading lessons.
Would they be able to read directions to the local library? :)
If they could, would they be able to distinguish between Fiction, Fantasy and Non-Fiction?
 
#19
ostvic said:
The Soviets looked to hold a few major cities, maintain the illusion that the Afghan Communist Party where in control in those cities, launch a major offensive each year and bomb the shite out of the rest of Afghanistan.
ISAF/US Centcom don't have the whole of the Afghan population wanting to kill them unlike the Soviets but have to deal with a very belligerent Pushtu population who seem to be happy to send there husbands/son's to fight and die. The fire fight is being won constantly but there hearts and minds are not.
Unlike the Soviets, ISAF/Centcom do have the opportunity to change there minds. Lets hope that there is a big push in that direction.
Hope as hard as you can. But whatever else you do while hoping:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH

The Shrub ain't interested (hey - days to do are gettin' few).

One-eyed Gordo ain't interested (too much money, and besides, I only want to do just enough to convince the Chimp that we're still allies . . . )

. . .and - between them - The Shrub and the Cyclops are more interested than the whole of The Whole Of Europelandistan put together.
 
#20
Domovoy said:
ostvic said:
The Soviets looked to hold a few major cities, maintain the illusion that the Afghan Communist Party where in control in those cities, launch a major offensive each year and bomb the shite out of the rest of Afghanistan.
ISAF/US Centcom don't have the whole of the Afghan population wanting to kill them unlike the Soviets but have to deal with a very belligerent Pushtu population who seem to be happy to send there husbands/son's to fight and die. The fire fight is being won constantly but there hearts and minds are not.
Unlike the Soviets, ISAF/Centcom do have the opportunity to change there minds. Lets hope that there is a big push in that direction.
Was there a referendum on that matter in Afghanistan? :D No the Soviets had to fight with a wide range of mujhideen groups from all of Afghan's ethnic groups ISAF/Centcom just have the Taliban ( unless the Americans attack Iran then the western half is going to combust) Here is a link to map which shows you how many groups the Soviets were fighting http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Afghanistan_insurgency_1985.jpg

Do you use crystal ball or coffee beans?

:roll: No by Propaganda ,reasoned argument,boots on the ground to deter the Taliban from returning and not bombing them back to the stone age as the Soviets did :)
 

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