Is it time for the voting process to embrace safe and fair technology?

#21
I'm no fan of Wotzit-heid but if you can't be bothered to get photo ID (for people who would vote for either party) then you're probably too dim to vote so I've little sympathy with the complainers in that case.

I've also heard all of the 'don't speak the language'/'not allowed out on their own' arguments here but would suggest that it's a pretty bare standard minimum for integration. Doesn't even have to be photo ID - bring a bill or similar.

I have my personal concerns with the 'Too dim to Vote' issue ;-)
 
Last edited:

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
#22
Because the paper system is more secure from tampering and outside interference than an electronic one is.
I think so too. And for a very good reason.

The 2015 UK General Election coincided with local Nottingham Council elections and I was elected as a TUSC party representative to oversee the counting. It was all done in a vast hall at the local tennis grounds and there were hundreds of us (representing different local and national parties) who spent the whole night there.

The actual counting was done by one or two persons at each table, who received the sealed voting boxes, but they were surrounded by dozens of party representatives who watched very carefully which pile they put the voting slips on and what they marked on the final score-sheets, which had to be signed off by two further representatives. Time and again the folks doing the counting were asked to re-check this or that pile before they were satisfied. It struck me that it would be next to impossible to do anything murky/shady under so many watchful eyes. In all, it was very impressive.

MsG
 
#23
I think so too. And for a very good reason.

The 2015 UK General Election coincided with local Nottingham Council elections and I was elected as a TUSC party representative to oversee the counting. It was all done in a vast hall at the local tennis grounds and there were hundreds of us (representing different local and national parties) who spent the whole night there.

The actual counting was done by one or two persons at each table, who received the sealed voting boxes, but they were surrounded by dozens of party representatives who watched very carefully which pile they put the voting slips on and what they marked on the final score-sheets, which had to be signed off by two further representatives. Time and again the folks doing the counting were asked to re-check this or that pile before they were satisfied. It struck me that it would be next to impossible to do anything murky/shady under so many watchful eyes. In all, it was very impressive.

MsG

What's TUSC
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
#24
Oops! Sorry about that. It's the "Trade Union and Socialist Coalition" started, among others, by the fantastic late Bob Crow.

MsG
 
#26
I'd love to lick the salty tears from you and your friends faces next year when we finally leave the EU - hahahahaaaaaa.
Cheers, Dits.

I think you missed the point I was making; don’t worry. There’s plenty of Brexit threads for you to crayon over elsewhere if you’d like.
 
Last edited:

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#27
As anyone that lives or has lived for the past 10 years in Singapore can tell you, when you are registered in SG, you are issued a government website login and password. It works similarly to the HMRC thing that is finally coming through in the UK except that you can use the govt. website for everything. Filing taxes, change of address, making claims, booking appointments, VOTING and so on. Its a one stop shop. We may see this in the UK in my life-time but I'm not holding my breath.

Once we've got voting online - I dare say secured by the blockchain - we'll be in a position to move to 100% requirement to vote.

Once we have 100% participation (or fines) we should also start getting MEP's and MP's and Councils actually reflect the constituents views rather than, say, a majority motivated to go vote because they're reminded or given time off by their unions. Instead people will be more politically literate, instead of voting for Dad's party when he was down-pit. No more bollocks about legitimacy (best seen in the Brexit referendum but a repeated issue in our First Past The Post system). Candidates will need to appeal to more people (eg the middle ground). Corbyn who basically campaigns to his base to motivate them to turn up would have to consider the tens of millions who he can now ignore because they don't vote, he would actually have to answer some sodding questions... ask the man on the street if they believe Labour would be good for the economy and few would answer yes, but do they vote... Tories likewise would have to stop giving free stuff to old people (high turn out voters) and have to consider the kids - scrotes I know, but you get the idea. Zero contract workers etc would have to vote (online, as opposed to leaving work which is a current physical problem).

Once we've got 100% voter participation, we can start differing voters between tax payers and non-tax payers. Non-tax payers votes would only count as 1/2 of course.
 
#28
@Mr Happy - all well and good, chap: however, if you recall, we tried something like that with Community Charge aka Poll Tax (which it wasn't, but never let an Outrage Bus pass by without flinging yourself on board).

Didn't go down too well with certain sections of society, though it allowed some of that number to go and do a bit of off-piste shopping.
 
#29
As anyone that lives or has lived for the past 10 years in Singapore can tell you, when you are registered in SG, you are issued a government website login and password. It works similarly to the HMRC thing that is finally coming through in the UK except that you can use the govt. website for everything. Filing taxes, change of address, making claims, booking appointments, VOTING and so on. Its a one stop shop. We may see this in the UK in my life-time but I'm not holding my breath.

Once we've got voting online - I dare say secured by the blockchain - we'll be in a position to move to 100% requirement to vote.

Once we have 100% participation (or fines) we should also start getting MEP's and MP's and Councils actually reflect the constituents views rather than, say, a majority motivated to go vote because they're reminded or given time off by their unions. Instead people will be more politically literate, instead of voting for Dad's party when he was down-pit. No more bollocks about legitimacy (best seen in the Brexit referendum but a repeated issue in our First Past The Post system). Candidates will need to appeal to more people (eg the middle ground). Corbyn who basically campaigns to his base to motivate them to turn up would have to consider the tens of millions who he can now ignore because they don't vote, he would actually have to answer some sodding questions... ask the man on the street if they believe Labour would be good for the economy and few would answer yes, but do they vote... Tories likewise would have to stop giving free stuff to old people (high turn out voters) and have to consider the kids - scrotes I know, but you get the idea. Zero contract workers etc would have to vote (online, as opposed to leaving work which is a current physical problem).

Once we've got 100% voter participation, we can start differing voters between tax payers and non-tax payers. Non-tax payers votes would only count as 1/2 of course.

Yep....then we could get down to the nitty gritty with some Braver Parties asking strategic questions in order to cause havoc e.g.

Would you pay more tax/NI to help the NHS providing it went direct to the service and not Managers salaries?

Would you like a choice to agree or not that some of your Tax money was spent on Foreign Aid - Tick the box where you would agree to send aid

Would you support a review of the Death Penalty for ...... list type of crimes commited

Should child benefit be paid after the second child.

Should the local Authority Housing Allocation be completly reviewed

Deportation of Foreign born Crimminals

etc, etc....you could create mayhem with the right questions - and then leak them before the actual election ( with a few false, inflammatory ones added ;-) )

*The non tax payers of retirement age should get a full vote if they had been paying tax for x ammount of years- you could even do a check to see the ammount that each individual had contribuited via tax and NI to date.
 
Last edited:
#31
Once we've got 100% voter participation, we can start differing voters between tax payers and non-tax payers. Non-tax payers votes would only count as 1/2 of course.

What's a non-tax payer? As soon as you buy anything you're a taxpayer (unless what you buy is VAT exempt). What about those pensioners who survive on the state pension? They don't pay tax.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#32
against their passport/ID card/citizenshi
If these are free then they may well have value, I went over ten years without a passport and am determined not to renew when my current one runs out!
 
#33
The stories that come out of the US during/after every election of machines not working, machines changing people's votes, machines registering the vote but not adding it to the tally etc leave me with massive reservations about any attempt to automate the process.

100% voter ID I am firmly in favour of. The only party where I live that objects to that is the same party that has a long history of voter fraud.
 
#34
Once we have 100% participation (or fines) we should also start getting MEP's and MP's and Councils actually reflect the constituents views rather than, say, a majority motivated to go vote because they're reminded or given time off by their unions.
Unless Article 50 is extended you’ll never vote for another MEP in the UK
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
#35
Once we've got 100% voter participation, we can start differing voters between tax payers and non-tax payers. Non-tax payers votes would only count as 1/2 of course.
Are you serious? You add "of course" as if you're stating some natural law. As @endure rightly pointed out, anyone in the UK who has to buy something, board a train, tram or bus or drive a vehicle is automatically a tax-payer. So would your "50-percent voters" only have to obey 50 percent of the laws? Just wondering, like.

MsG
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#36
It works similarly to the HMRC thing that is finally coming through in the UK except that you can use the govt. website for everything. Filing taxes, change of address, making claims, booking appointments, VOTING and so on. Its a one stop shop. We may see this in the UK in my life-time but I'm not holding my breath.
Dont hold your breath, I have dispensation for paper filing as their system is so pants I refuse to use it!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#37
Unless Article 50 is extended you’ll never vote for another MEP in the UK
Not that MEP votes had any impact upon Brussels legislation anyway!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#38
Depends how think how 'secure' it is. Nothing is completely safe, I think ID is the safest option.
Besides our Civil service and IT projects don't end well.
All ID can be forged. I wont vote in person so I comply with postal voting rules. I certainly wont pay for another passport unless I really have to or I win the lottery!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#39
100% voter ID I am firmly in favour of. The only party where I live that objects to that is the same party that has a long history of voter fraud.
There is possibly no way you can ever stamp out voter fraud. Unless certain areas are barred from postal voting!
 
#40
There is possibly no way you can ever stamp out voter fraud. Unless certain areas are barred from postal voting!
I would settle for all the dead people round here stopping voting!
 

Similar threads

Top