Is it time for the voting process to embrace safe and fair technology?

#1
I can't understand why western governments won't embrace technology for safe and fair voting, what with all these claims of tampering, for all we know anybody could be tampering, not just the Russians.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have a proposal.

Have an open-source AI code with the running process available to real-time viewing by vetted non-partisan and highly qualified engineers as a first line.
The importance of open-source is that anybody can look at the code and if there is one thing qualified professionals to agree on it's the code.

So how could this work? Bare with me ;)

System 1 - National voter database*
1. User registers with retina biometrics against their passport/ID card/citizenship to become a voter. Retina, since people whinge about DNA and prints.
2. Come voting time a QR barcode is sent out to voters by post or email to the registered contact details in step 1.
3. The voter shows up at the polling station and is scanned against system 1 with the QR code to check authenticity and is issued a printed token to present to system 2.

System 2 - The ballot counting system (not connected to system 1 for anonymity)*
4. The voter presents the token to system 2 and its authenticity will present a ballot card to be marked by the voter.
5. Upon leaving the voter presents the marked ballot back into system 2, it is checked as being issued against itself and a second token is issued to exit. The data from the ballot card is sent encrypted to system 3.
6. The second token is presented to System 1 on exit which says a vote has been registered and is legally binding.

System 3 - The election database (not connected to system 2 for anonymity but registered against system 1)*
7. All data is sent from System 2 to System 3 and checked against the data from System 1. This is how the final votes are tallied up.


* AI could use blockchain technology to make sure the data has not been manipulated or tampered with as it passes anonymously between systems.
AI can only see all three system by means of the fully encrypted blockchain, humans cant.
With a big team of engineers, the AI can be monitored for any suspicious activity or errors in the code or faults between systems, just like half the planet is run today.
The physical hardware could be completely sealed and serviced remotely by the same group of engineers, in 2 unit pairs and only connected by fibre and encrypted VPN, The Blockchain is the key to safety.

We could have real-time results on TV and a system that politicians cannot tamper or argue with, Made for the taxpayer, by the taxpayer.
Or is fairness that we control out of the question, which kind of answers my first point.

What are your thoughts?
Do you think the old ballot box system is open to abuse?
Any other techy types think about this?
 
#2
The Scottish Government wouldn't allow it - because they wouldn't be able to 'fiddle' the numbers. Everyone I know voted for Brexit - and yet Sturgeon and her cronies seem to think 'Scotland' voted against it? Bullshit - I think the vote was wrongly counted, and vote leave should have got a far higher number than it did.
Still it would be good if we moved into this century - it can't be that hard to have electronic voting, I'm pretty sure it's more than possible, but it wouldn't be beneficial to those that pull the strings, for democracy is an illusion and nothing more.
 
Last edited:

Sixty

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#3
The Scottish Government wouldn't allow it - because they wouldn't be able to 'fiddle' the numbers. Everyone I know voted for Brexit - and yet Sturgeon and her cronies seem to think 'Scotland' voted against it? Bullshit - I think the vote was wrongly counted, and vote leave should have got a far higher number than it did.
Still it would be good if we moved into this century - it can't be that hard to have electronic voting, I'm pretty sure it's more than possible, but it wouldn't be beneficial to those that pull the strings for democracy is an illusion and nothing more.
Aw. Have you been triggered, snowflake? Off to the Brexit thread and your safe-space.
 

Sixty

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#4
What are your thoughts?
Do you think the old ballot box system is open to abuse?
Any other techy types think about this?
Of course it's open to abuse and it's a bit absurd that you don't have to present photo ID to claim your ballot slip. Coupled with the easily manipulated postal vote system then it's possibly quite rife.

However, given the mass confusion and/or traditionalist vote that came out the last time it was asked (Alternative Vote Referendum, 2011), I fear you'd never get it implemented unless Parliament offered it as a fait accompli.
 
#5
Of course it's open to abuse and it's a bit absurd that you don't have to present photo ID to claim your ballot slip. Coupled with the easily manipulated postal vote system then it's possibly quite rife.

However, given the mass confusion and/or traditionalist vote that came out the last time it was asked (Alternative Vote Referendum, 2011), I fear you'd never get it implemented unless Parliament offered it as a fait accompli.
I agree, But my proposal is not an alternative voting system, it's just a modern, safe and secure way of doing the same thing.
Although there is no reason why It could not be used in an alternate voting system.

I tried to eliminate all the steps where manipulation could happen while keeping anonymity the actual vote intact.
 
#6
Depends how think how 'secure' it is. Nothing is completely safe, I think ID is the safest option.
Besides our Civil service and IT projects don't end well.
 

Sixty

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#7
But my proposal is not an alternative voting system, it's just a modern, safe and secure way of doing the same thing.
Oh, I appreciate that: I'm just wondering if it's as simple as spending the money or whether it would have to go to a public vote (since MPs who swear the system at the moment is the best thing since sliced bread would be very unlikely to pass it in Parliament)?
 
#8
Everyone I know voted for Brexit - and yet Sturgeon and her cronies seem to think 'Scotland' voted against it? Bullshit - I think the vote was wrongly counted, and vote leave should have got a far higher number than it did.
You mean that the people you have regular conversations with (some may call them “friends”) have similar opinions to your own?

Holy cow, batman.

Most people I know voted to remain. That leaves us in a pickle, following your logic.
 
#9
I can't understand why western governments won't embrace technology for safe and fair voting, what with all these claims of tampering, for all we know anybody could be tampering, not just the Russians.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have a proposal.

Have an open-source AI code with the running process available to real-time viewing by vetted non-partisan and highly qualified engineers as a first line.
The importance of open-source is that anybody can look at the code and if there is one thing qualified professionals to agree on it's the code.

So how could this work? Bare with me ;)

System 1 - National voter database*
1. User registers with retina biometrics against their passport/ID card/citizenship to become a voter. Retina, since people whinge about DNA and prints.
2. Come voting time a QR barcode is sent out to voters by post or email to the registered contact details in step 1.
3. The voter shows up at the polling station and is scanned against system 1 with the QR code to check authenticity and is issued a printed token to present to system 2.

System 2 - The ballot counting system (not connected to system 1 for anonymity)*
4. The voter presents the token to system 2 and its authenticity will present a ballot card to be marked by the voter.
5. Upon leaving the voter presents the marked ballot back into system 2, it is checked as being issued against itself and a second token is issued to exit. The data from the ballot card is sent encrypted to system 3.
6. The second token is presented to System 1 on exit which says a vote has been registered and is legally binding.

System 3 - The election database (not connected to system 2 for anonymity but registered against system 1)*
7. All data is sent from System 2 to System 3 and checked against the data from System 1. This is how the final votes are tallied up.


* AI could use blockchain technology to make sure the data has not been manipulated or tampered with as it passes anonymously between systems.
AI can only see all three system by means of the fully encrypted blockchain, humans cant.
With a big team of engineers, the AI can be monitored for any suspicious activity or errors in the code or faults between systems, just like half the planet is run today.
The physical hardware could be completely sealed and serviced remotely by the same group of engineers, in 2 unit pairs and only connected by fibre and encrypted VPN, The Blockchain is the key to safety.

We could have real-time results on TV and a system that politicians cannot tamper or argue with, Made for the taxpayer, by the taxpayer.
Or is fairness that we control out of the question, which kind of answers my first point.

What are your thoughts?
Do you think the old ballot box system is open to abuse?
Any other techy types think about this?
In my life I have learnt a lot of things one being "if it's made by man it can be fiddled by man"
In the present system a lot of people understand how it work, so many people are looking for wrong doing,
in your system only a few people understand how it works, so any hacking of the system
would be hard to detect.
As for software is there anything in the world that can't be hacked?
What software system set up by the government has ever worked?
The present voting system may come unstuck at times but on the whole it works just fine
and can't be fiddled by one person [small team ] across the whole network
 
#10
I was with this until the "vetted, non-partisan" bit. Who chooses them, let me guess, an "independent agency". Who appoints the independent agency, fatal flaw revealed.

As has been pointed out, it will need CS involvement with an IT project.

What we have is not perfect but it is simple and works fairly well.
 
#12
I can't understand why western governments won't embrace technology for safe and fair voting, what with all these claims of tampering, for all we know anybody could be tampering, not just the Russians.
Because the paper system is more secure from tampering and outside interference than an electronic one is.
 
#13
Of course it's open to abuse and it's a bit absurd that you don't have to present photo ID to claim your ballot slip. Coupled with the easily manipulated postal vote system then it's possibly quite rife.

However, given the mass confusion and/or traditionalist vote that came out the last time it was asked (Alternative Vote Referendum, 2011), I fear you'd never get it implemented unless Parliament offered it as a fait accompli.
Funny enough, people in some US States have been excluded from voting because they don't have an in date, valid photo ID .... and the Libtards reaction has been 100% predictable - cause getting a valid photo ID from the list of acceptable ones provided by the ballot adjudicators is soooo difficult and obviously Trump's fault.
 
#15
You mean that the people you have regular conversations with (some may call them “friends”) have similar opinions to your own?

Holy cow, batman.

Most people I know voted to remain. That leaves us in a pickle, following your logic.

Yet it's also been stated that 70 % of over 55 year olds - which may or may not fall into part of my age group ;-) - voted Remain, which kinda fecks with the whiney 'Your stole our future' ingrates.
 

Sixty

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#16
Funny enough, people in some US States have been excluded from voting because they don't have an in date, valid photo ID .... and the Libtards reaction has been 100% predictable - cause getting a valid photo ID from the list of acceptable ones provided by the ballot adjudicators is soooo difficult and obviously Trump's fault.
I'm no fan of Wotzit-heid but if you can't be bothered to get photo ID (for people who would vote for either party) then you're probably too dim to vote so I've little sympathy with the complainers in that case.

I've also heard all of the 'don't speak the language'/'not allowed out on their own' arguments here but would suggest that it's a pretty bare standard minimum for integration. Doesn't even have to be photo ID - bring a bill or similar.
 

Sixty

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#17
I'd love to lick the salty tears from you and your friends faces next year when we finally leave the EU - hahahahaaaaaa.
Keep the Brexit pish to the Brexit pish thread.
 
#18
Keep the Brexit pish to the Brexit pish thread.
I'm guessing you're a whinging remoaner - hahahahaaaaa. I'd love to have seen the scowl on your face when the results came in to leave the EU. I was ecstatic - I bet you weren't as happy as me :)
 
#20
Because the paper system is more secure from tampering and outside interference than an electronic one is.
Really? how do you explain students voting twice, postal voter fraud and ballot boxes that turn up after winners have been declared?

How has the blockchain not been abused yet? or how has the BoE system not been hacked? even the benefits database for example? and Dii? They all seem pretty resilient.

I was with this until the "vetted, non-partisan" bit. Who chooses them, let me guess, an "independent agency". Who appoints the independent agency, fatal flaw revealed.

As has been pointed out, it will need CS involvement with an IT project.

What we have is not perfect but it is simple and works fairly well.
Qualified engineers, signed contracts working with an open source where their work can be scrutinized by people who know what they are looking for (the public too). An independent team yes, which politicians cannot touch. It's a level playing field and is that not what Democracy is all about.

Seems to me we can build a good system when there is a requirement, why not the protection of a fair voting system?
Politicians in my eyes should have nothing to do with the system that gets them into power which is also a good baseline to build on.
 

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