Is Facial Recognition & Public Surveillance A Good Thing?

Club Swinger

War Hero
I see the Snoflake Brigade are kicking off about the use of Facial Recognition Technology and the rights of The Police and Security Services to carry out Public Surveillance. Sort of the same way they kicked off about the introduction of the National Identity Cards.

Are those against either of the above just members of the criminal fraternity, illegal immigrants, and the type of person who leaves their estate to a Cat or Donkey sanctuary in their will?

Or do they have a legitimate argument against the use of this technology, therefore justified in making their protests.

My view is if you are not on the National Watch List then what is the problem?

NB Edited following a Lightbulb moment...

Would now be a good time to go into the Balaclava Production industry. Just asking for a friend. Thanks

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I am only mildly concerned about it at the moment.
I have nothing to hide, but the current lack of regulation specific to facial recognition needs to be addressed.
Happy for the Security services and Police to use it, but not so sure about commercial companies.

Local councils should be specifically barred from using it though, they have form for abusing power.
 
Facial recognition is fine ex post facto. “OK Achmed we got yer bang to rights on CCTV wiv the rucksack”. (Although there is some doubt about this nowadays).

One of the big problems is accuracy and false positives.

Assume there are 60 million people in the UK and 10,000 true suspects. Using your 80% accurate image screening test, you get 6 million false positives. At the same time, of your 10,000 true suspects, you miss 2,000. How do you investigate the false positives and what do you do about the 2,000 you missed?

Better and more comprehensive explanation here:
 
Look at China to see how a police state uses facial recognition against the proles, it's not very pleasant
 
Depends on how it is being used.

ANPR has been around for a long time, and is almost foolproof. To the point that fixed installations automatically dish out speeding fines like confetti. It is looking for well-defined features (ie number plates).

Facial recognition is obviously more difficult and therefore has a higher margin of error at present. But then again things like the facial recognition camera that lets me into my phone had better be considerably better margin of error.

So in my view, the confidence of the match needs to dictate the use of the technology. If the gear on a railway station can only produce 80% confidence, then that info is only of use for background intelligence.

Let's say there is a known player who lives in Leicester, and has triggered the system at the mainline station in London as he goes through the ticket barriers. But that's all he triggers. If there is no other intelligence of an impending attack, perhaps he's just going to Oxford St for some shopping, or perhaps it wasn't him after all.

On the other hand, if that same guy triggers the system at the mainline station, and three other points in the underground system, and it happens to be State Opening of Parliament, and he's getting off the train at Westminster, and there's intelligence of a spectacular in the offing, perhaps he is worthy of closer inspection.

Or a different application - football grounds and idiots. Those who throw flares or coins or bananas. ID them from the cameras. What's wrong with that?
 
I see the Snoflake Brigade are kicking off about the use of Facial Recognition Technology and the rights of The Police and Security Services to carry out Public Surveillance. Sort of the same way they kicked off about the introduction of the National Identity Cards.

Are those against either of the above just members of the criminal fraternity, illegal immigrants, and the type of person who leaves their estate to a Cat or Donkey sanctuary in their will?

Or do they have a legitimate argument against the use of this technology, therefore justified in making their protests.

My view is if you are not on the National Watch List then what is the problem?

NB Edited following a Lightbulb moment...

Would now be a good time to go into the Balaclava Production industry. Just asking for a friend. Thanks

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If you have nothing to hide, why are you hiding behind a nickname on a pseudonymous forum? Who is going to judge you for what you post and what you say?

I used to have to carry a pass anyway, so National ID cards shouldn't be a concern, unless you lose them or they are stolen or skimmed and faked. The worry over automatic face recognition and ID cards is rooted in awareness of their abuse by authoritarian governments, corrupt individuals and authority creep by some councils.

There may be more CCTV cameras in the UK than any other country but they are drastically outnumbered by mobile phone cameras.

There is an irony in the "snoflakes" willingly participating in mass surveillance marketing, masquerading as altruistic social media platforms and indulging in prolific "selfies". Those platforms would be a gift to the Stasi, an organisation which magic grandpa's strategy and communications director seemed to admire. FB are barely in control of their platform which has been used for good but also for evil. It has also markedly changed societies the world over and arguably not for the better. Trial by social media does not have the same level of impartial scrutiny and oversight as we hope our empowered organisations and courts have.
 
I think in this day and age, cameras that trigger an alert if someone is seen with a hood up and drawn fully over their face would yield better results.
Scrotes are not deterred by Cctv nowadays.
 

Awol

LE
Objections to cameras aren't generally based on the law and order factors, they're based on the fact that we have a right to privacy. If I want to do something, even something immoral in some peoples' eyes, then I have the right to do it in secret, without the fear that some faceless monitor in a distant office is pointing at a screen and giggling.
 
Facial recognition is obviously more difficult and therefore has a higher margin of error at present. But then again things like the facial recognition camera that lets me into my phone had better be considerably better margin of error.
I have seen, firsthand, some of the image and recognition software coming out of China, it is scarily good.
 
I have seen, firsthand, some of the image and recognition software coming out of China, it is scarily good.
What’s the quality of the instruction manuals in English though?!

“Order camera to direction of mammal. Camera will excite if man woman visage be of undemocratic possibility. If nasty is detected, software will orgasm to interface with climax of screenshots.”
 
Objections to cameras aren't generally based on the law and order factors, they're based on the fact that we have a right to privacy. If I want to do something, even something immoral in some peoples' eyes, then I have the right to do it in secret, without the fear that some faceless monitor in a distant office is pointing at a screen and giggling.
If you didn't have such a small appendage, they would not be giggling. :p
 
Objections to cameras aren't generally based on the law and order factors, they're based on the fact that we have a right to privacy. If I want to do something, even something immoral in some peoples' eyes, then I have the right to do it in secret, without the fear that some faceless monitor in a distant office is pointing at a screen and giggling.
I think the OP was more to do with Public Surveillance, not what we may get up to in the privacy of our, or others, homes. I agree with the right to privacy, I do however recognise the benefit of public CCTV systems.
 
One problem could be the false positives...
Dave Blogs is “pinged” walking down high street at 02:30 with Sarah Smith. Somebody was mugged nearby around that time. Problem? Dave is married to Edna Blogs and he’s told her he was working nights that night...
He’s also pinged to that area at the time, driving into the nearby travel lodge with Sarah.
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Look at China to see how a police state uses facial recognition against the proles, it's not very pleasant
Dunno, seemed like a good example of it working well! :D

I'm all for surveillance - because whilst it rarely stops crime, it has a lot to play in catching them afterwards and many crimes are solved from CCTV evidence.
 
I see the Snoflake Brigade are kicking off about the use of Facial Recognition Technology and the rights of The Police and Security Services to carry out Public Surveillance. Sort of the same way they kicked off about the introduction of the National Identity Cards.
It was libertarians, conservatives and those on the right that objected to ID cards, not snowflakes.

More gammons were outraged by the whole thing than the youth were.
 
One problem could be the false positives...
Dave Blogs is “pinged” walking down high street at 02:30 with Sarah Smith. Somebody was mugged nearby around that time. Problem? Dave is married to Edna Blogs and he’s told her he was working nights that night...
He’s also pinged to that area at the time, driving into the nearby travel lodge with Sarah.
I take it that you are trying to establish some doubts that the footage of you and Sarah is believable, Dave.
 
Look at China to see how a police state uses facial recognition against the proles, it's not very pleasant
Depressingly, it's a factor in the place becoming more pleasant as the Social Credit system penalises people for being knobends far more often than it does for opposing the Party. It's the age-old story of people being far better behaved when they think their behaviour will be seen. I wish people could behave well because they ought to but that seems to be an unrealistic hope.

Imagine if you could block chavs from travelling somewhere nice if the last time they went they fucked it up for everyone else with their antics...
 
I would guess those who do not want to be identified could beat it ? beard, glasses and hat ?
 

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