Is environmentalism becoming a religion?

Discussion in 'The Science Forum' started by Speedy, Nov 10, 2009.

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  1. This has been annoying me for some time now. Yes, I'm all in favour of cuttign down on pollution and lookign for cleaner fuels etc, but the way it's going is that we are getting to a stage where there are environmental fundementalists! They won't listen to anything which conflicts with their beliefs, look for active punishments for non-belivers and generally try and control important aspects of our lives. I've inserted below a potion of a speech made my Micheal Crighton in 2003 and boy, does it ring true.

    Why is it that the decision makers pander to the doom mongers instead of makign a decision using differign sets of evidence? And more importantly are beign penalised by punative taxes and restriction when no alternatives are in place to make us change our ways?
     
  2. And like any other religion there are atheists whose denial isn't founded in anything more than their personal beliefs either.

    Humanity needs to improve. Drastically.
     
  3. Yes it is. A judge said so:

    Makes my liver fizzzzzz!

    Sacked environmentalist wins right to tribunal
    4 Nov 09
    Ruling finds climate change views are as valid as religious belief
    An environmentalist who says his beliefs led to his sacking has won the right to take his former employer to a tribunal.

    A judge ruled that Tim Nicholson's views on climate change should be given the same consideration by employers as "religious or philosophical beliefs".

    Nicholson, 42, was made redundant as head of sustainability at property company Grainger last year, but claims his opinions on climate change led to his unfair dismissal.

    In March, employment judge David Neath gave Nicholson permission to take the firm to a tribunal over his treatment, but Grainger challenged the decision.

    Yesterday, appeal court judge Michael Burton found in Nicholson's favour and dismissed the company's arguments that his views were not the same as "religious or philosophical beliefs".

    The judge said: "If a person can establish he holds a philosophical belief based on science as opposed, for example, to religion, then there is no reason to disqualify it from protection."


    You run the risk of being lynched if you dare to disagree with the bloody drivel that the hippies spout around here. I have a lot of sympathies with their ideals, it's just the elevation of dodgy science to dogma that gets my colon going all spastic.

    Rev up the outrage bus and put some red diesel in it while you're there!!!
     
  4. ......
    .
     
  5. Yup.

    Trouble is, the Liberal Left have run their flag up the wrong mast. Global Warming is a myth, and the Liberal Left are about to get shown up as the idiots they truly are.


    Did you know that global temperatures have been stable or cooling for the last 10 years?
    http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1998/to:2009/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1998/to:2009/trend


    Did you know that Antarctic sea ice has been growing significantly over the last 30 years?
    http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/nsidc-seaice-s/from:1978/to:2009/plot/nsidc-seaice-s/from:1978/to:2009/trend


    Did you know that polar bear numbers are increasing rapidly:
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1ea8233f-14da-4a44-b839-b71a9e5df868
    http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/ask-the-experts/population/
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11656-climate-myths-polar-bear-numbers-are-increasing.html
    Note how disengenuous that New Scientist report. "Yes, polar bear numbers are increasing, but in the reported area they are decreasing".


    Did you know that Sunspot numbers were decreasing rapidly, and are presently at the lowest level for 100 years?
    http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/sidc-ssn/from:1978/to:2009/plot/sidc-ssn/from:1978/to:2009/trend
    http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/03sep_sunspots.htm?list53494

    And that the last time the Sun did this, we had frost fairs on the Thames.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum



    Take a look at Lord Monckton's take on this:
    http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/

    Here is Monckton's recent speech at St Paul's:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0
    Check out 1hr 31min, his summary. He surmises that the entire Global Warming scam is a Communist plot to take over the world. No really - he is quite persuasive on this. It is worth watching.


    The Greenie Left, and all the Global Warming bandwagon (and this new religion's priesthood) may soon end up with egg on their faces.


    .
     
  6. No it isn't. The judge actually talked of:

    a philosophical belief based on science as opposed, for example, to religion,
     
  7. Yes, based on some science.

    What is really needed is someone who doesn't give a cr@p either way to examine both sides of the argument dispassionately. Preferably someone old, who's going to die before he's proved right or wrong, so he doesn't worry about that.

    Personally, I don't believe in Global Warming etc. I do believe that we should try to develop and use renewables as much as possible because fossil fuels are finite- but we don't really know how finite.
     
  8. I installed a wind turbine to power my house. I installed solar panels and placed turf on the roof. Ninety percent of the water I used was recycled. I separated my household waste into plasics (recyclable), plastics (non-recyclable), cardboard, tins and packaging. I composted all the organic waste. I saved 15 whales. Last year I protested against a small coppice being ripped up in order to provide a layby on the B1235. I wear biodegradable linen clothes from an exclusive yoghurt commune in SE London.

    All I really wanted to do was get in my Porsche Cayenne and hot foot it out of Chelsea to Heathrow, so I could fly off business class to Aspen for the skiing.
     
  9. Unfortunatly, it seems to be a religion without any tenants.
    Not allowed to go nuclear, too big a danger to humanity.
    Not allowed to erect wind farms, spoils the view.
    Ditto solar power fields.
    So what does that leave us with? Oh wiat a minute fossil fuels.
    I find some of the science hard to come to terms with. For instance, ice caps melting, as ice takes up a larger volume than water, surely sea levels would actually drop, understandably, the salinity level of the water will change causing hardship to the nearby Cod.
    Does the climate not change continually? Has there been more than one ice age? hasn't this all happened before?
    IMHO, it's just another way to raise taxes and turn the workers into slaves of one kind or another.
    BTW, we were promised 8 inches of snow last night, just a light dustiing instead.
     
  10. Religion? Yup a pretty good comparison, especially if you use the Moonies as your religious comparison.
    Manmade climate change is just about as credible as walking on water etc.
     
  11. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Agreed.

    The state of grace is natural forestation across most of the globe, within which 10's of millions of species live, thrive and survive cheek by jowel under a protective canopy of green.

    We are very far indeed from that position.

    The nay-sayers can argue all they like about global warming and what a red herring that might be, but what cannot be argued is the fact of the mass-extinction of wildlife, rapid deforestion, wiped fishing stocks, expansion of deserts, damge through flooding due to an absence of trees and more.

    Humanity is no more than any other species of life living on this planet that relies on the existing biomass and atmosphere to sustain it. This should be a healthy, enduring symbiosis, not a ravaging, destructive parasitic relationship. Other parasites continue their existence by finding other hosts when they need to. Humanity has no other 'hosts' apart from the one on which we live.

    Sure, we can survive under the sun, we can grow and live off crops and domesticated animals when all else is extinct, and we can genetically engineer just that which sustains us for our ever growing population, but what about everything else? When it's gone, it's not coming back - not for tens of millions of years; long after we've brought about our own extinction.

    Sure, we can survive using stillsuits and snorting 'spice' from a desert planet in a galactic empire, but it would be so much nicer if it wasn't the case in thousands of years to come.

    Think that's religionist bollarks? Nope - it's common sense, science and recorded historical fact (like the Dodo).

    If one absolutely must have a religion - look at that which is based on Gaian theory.
     
  12. Surely that is a Wah from you?

    Pop quiz: name all the species which have suffered in these "mass extinctions" in the last 50 years.
     
  13. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Do you want the last 50 years or the last 500. Should I exclude endangered and massively depleted?

    Here's some extinct ones:

    Caspian Tiger
    Tasmanian Tiger
    Newfoundland Wolf
    Cave Bear
    Passenger Pigeon
    Dire Wolf
    Steller’s Sea Cow
    British Wolf
    Dodo

    Here's a more generic list (mammals only):

    Bettongia pusilla Nullarbor Dwarf Bettong
    2 Boromys offella Oriente Cave Rat
    3 Boromys torrei Torre’s Cave Rat
    4 Bos primigenius Auroch
    5 Brotomys voratus Hispaniolan Edible Rat
    6 Caloprymnus campestris Desert Rat Kangaroo
    7 Chaeropus ecaudatus Pig-footed Bandicoot
    8 Conilurus albipes White-footed Rabbit-rat
    9 Coryphomys buehleri Buhler’s Coryphomys
    10 Cryptonanus ignitus Red-bellied Gracile Mouse Opossum
    11 Cryptoprocta spelea Giant Fossa
    12 Cuscomys oblativa —
    13 Desmodus draculae Giant Vampire Bat
    14 Dusicyon australis Falkland Island Wolf
    15 Gazella bilkis Queen Of Sheba’s Gazelle
    16 Gazella saudiya Saudi Gazelle
    17 Geocapromys columbianus Cuban Coney
    18 Geocapromys thoracatus Little Swan Island Hutia
    19 Heteropsomys insulans Insular Cave Rat
    20 Hexolobodon phenax Imposter Hutia
    21 Hippopotamus lemerlei Madagascan Dwarf Hippopotamus
    22 Hippopotamus madagascariensis Madagascan Pygmy Hippo
    23 Hippotragus leucophaeus Bluebuck
    24 Hydrodamalis gigas Steller’s Sea Cow
    25 Isolobodon montanus Montane Hutia
    26 Isolobodon portoricensis Puerto Rican Hutia
    27 Juscelinomys candango Candango Mouse
    28 Lagorchestes asomatus Central Hare Wallaby
    29 Lagorchestes leporides Eastern Hare Wallaby
    30 Lagostomus crassus —
    31 Macropus greyi Toolache Wallaby
    32 Macrotis leucura Lesser Bilby
    33 Megalomys desmarestii Desmarest’s Pilorie
    34 Megalomys luciae Santa Lucian Pilorie
    35 Megaoryzomys curioi Galapágos Giant Rat
    36 Monachus tropicalis Caribbean Monk Seal
    37 Neotoma anthonyi Anthony’s Woodrat
    38 Neotoma bunkeri Bunkers Woodrat
    39 Neotoma martinensis San Martin Island Woodrat
    40 Neovison macrodon Sea Mink
    41 Nesophontes edithae Puerto Rican Nesophontes
    42 Nesophontes hypomicrus Atalaye Nesophontes
    43 Nesophontes major —
    44 Nesophontes micrus Western Cuban Nesophontes
    45 Nesophontes paramicrus St. Michel Nesophontes
    46 Nesophontes zamicrus Haitian Nesophontes
    47 Nesoryzomys darwini Darwin’s Galapagos Mouse
    48 Nesoryzomys indefessus Indefatigable Galapagos Mouse
    49 Noronhomys vespuccii —
    50 Notomys amplus Short-tailed Hopping Mouse
    51 Notomys longicaudatus Long-tailed Hopping Mouse
    52 Notomys macrotis Big-eared Hopping Mouse
    53 Notomys mordax Darling Downs Hopping Mouse
    54 Oligoryzomys victus St. Vincent Pygmy Rice Rat
    55 Onychogalea lunata Crescent Nailtail Wallaby
    56 Oryzomys antillarum Jamaican Rice Rat
    57 Oryzomys nelsoni Tres Marias Island Rice Rat
    58 Palaeopropithecus ingens Large Sloth Lemur
    59 Perameles eremiana Desert Bandicoot
    60 Peromyscus pembertoni Pemberton’s Deer Mouse
    61 Plagiodontia ipnaeum Samana Hutia
    62 Potorous platyops Broad-faced Potoroo
    63 Prolagus sardus Sardinian Pika
    64 Pseudomys glaucus Blue-grey Mouse
    65 Pseudomys gouldii Gould’s Mouse
    66 Pteropus brunneus Percy Island Flying Fox
    67 Pteropus pilosus Large Palau Flying Fox
    68 Pteropus subniger Lesser Mascarene Flying-fox
    69 Pteropus tokudae Guam Flying Fox
    70 Rattus macleari Maclear’s Rat
    71 Rattus nativitatis Bulldog Rat
    72 Rucervus schomburgki Schomburgk’s Deer
    73 Solenodon marcanoi Marcano’s Solenodon
    74 Thylacinus cynocephalus Thylacine (Tasmanian wolf)
    75 Xenothrix mcgregori Jamaican Monkey
    76 Zalophus japonicus Japanese Sea Lion

    Mammal subspecies extinctions
    1 Alcelaphus buselaphus ssp. buselaphus Bubal Hartebeest
    2 Equus quagga ssp. quagga Quagga
    3 Kobus leche ssp. robertsi Roberts’ Lechwe
    4 Ourebia ourebi ssp. kenyae Kenya Oribi
    5 Panthera tigris ssp. balica Bali Tiger
    6 Panthera tigris ssp. sondaica Javan Tiger
    7 Panthera tigris ssp. virgata Caspian Tiger

    Extinct in the Wild
    1 Elaphurus davidianus Père David’s Deer
    2 Oryx dammah Scimitar-horned Oryx


    There are 247 Critically Endangered mammals in the 2008 database — 188 mammal species and 59 subspecies.

    That's not to forget species of plant, insect or fish.
     
  14. Last 50. By name. Just endangered will do.

    None of these studies based on "we looked at 10 ha of jungle in 1990, counted the fluffy creatures, did the same again in 2000, assumed that anything we didn't find again had gone extinct, then we made some silly estimations, multiplied it by the number of instances of the name Wong in the Beijing phone directory, and decided that there must be 100,000 million extinctions per decade, and got published in Nature because our study massaged the prejudices of the editorial staff".

    Then we shall compare with the number of new/newly discovered species discovered in the same timeframe.
     
  15. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    There's a huge gulf between 'we've just discovered something that we haven't wiped out yet' and 'we know they've gone forever because of us'.

    Yes, we like to kill stuff because it tastes nice - so long as it's sustainable, fine. Destruction forever of species-supporting habitat is a different ball game.