Is Democracy the best form of government?

#1
Hello all,

I’ve no desire to start an Arrse anarchist movement but a post by another member regarding the limitations of universal suffrage got me thinking:- Is there a better form of government than democracy? Is there a better system to be had other than giving everyone the vote?

If we could start from scratch what do you think would be the best form of government? Would it be something that’s never been tried before?

Churchill said a 5 minute conversation with the average voter shows the problems with democracy. I personally think a system of democratic voting based on service to the country would be quite apt. I hear the Romans had something similar, it wouldn’t necessarily have to be military, just a service to the state such as NHS/Police etc. I suppose there would always be an underlying problem as to who is entitled when one also considers the variation of taxes.

What are your thoughts and what kind of system would you choose?

DC
 
#2
Quote from 'Starship Troopers'

'All right, let's sum up. This year in history, we talked about the failure of democracy. How the social scientists of the 21st Century brought our world to the brink of chaos. We talked about the veterans, how they took control and imposed the stability that has lasted for generations since. We talked about the rights and privileges between those who served in the armed forces and those who haven't, therefore called citizens and civilians.
[to a student]
Jean Rasczak: You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?
Student: It's a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service.
Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no basis in value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.'

In the ancient Greek city states all citizens could elect the government but not civilians, the problem these days is that we do not differentiate between citizens and civilians in our so called democratic countries.

Citizenship then was a special status conferred upon a person, unlike these days where any low life oxygen thieving git has the same political authority as upstanding model citizens.

I think we should revert to the ancient Greek model where to qualify for citizenship, and therefore be eligible to vote, you had to be of value to the society, had to be literate and educated, could not have been a slave, had to have done military or civil service, taxes had to be in good order etc.

One's citizenship could be revoked if you had a criminal record or were financially insolvent or were on the dole.

The merits of such an electoral system are obvious.






I'm sure we could come up with some other criteria.
 
#3
I'd have no problem with some form of meritocracy, where by if you pay tax you get a vote. If unable to find employment which these days is unfortunately common a substantial amount of voluntary/community service would gain you voting rights. Any major criminal convictions, such as murder, rape, drug dealing, treason/terrorism result in lost of voting rights for life. Foreign nationals must pay tax for five years to receive citizenship and the vote. Just a rough outline fully await for holes to be punched in it.
 
#4
I thought that it was gererally accepted in academic circles that a benign dictatorship is the most efficient form of government. It depends upon how 'best' is defined. I don't think that one miserable vote every five years is an acceptable form of democracy in the 21st century. The will of the people clearly does not prevail. Must go and start breaking up the cobble stones.
 
#6
Of course it ******* well is. And if you don't think so you'll be hung by your ringpiece from a meathook.
 
#7
I don´t think the problem of the future generations will be the form of government but the spread of money or means of existence,as long as the starving are stuck in AIDS riddled Africa we the basically rich in food and materials are secure in our beds,however should the prolls or other western countries peoples start starving then we´ll all be in the sh*te.

To disenfranchise large chunks of the poulation wouldn´t be a great problem as long as they believe that the government won´t betray them or that they will act in their interest even though they have no vote.I can vote in local and EU elections but not in National ones as I´m not a German though I´ve been paying taxes etc for nearly 30 years,a Pole with German ancestors gets the vote as soon as he gets his passport without having paid a penny in tax!

Though I wont be around to see it I think the only way forward will be a form of socialism linked to working for rewards,a sort of ´Star Trek`world where credits instead of money take over and you get what you need to survive,with the World´s population growing food and water will become the reasons for war or invasion.

Restricting votes to an intellectual minority or demanding service for them would only lead to a return to the 19th century when people died to secure the right to say how the country was run,it would be a return to virtual slavery although we probably already have a version of that with the working population being asked to hand over more than 50% of their income,they´ve got 50 inch flat screen telly´s and a BMW in the garage and are `happy´and `content´like cows in a heated milking stall.

The non working families have 60 inch flat screen telly,a BMW they rent out as a taxi and 3 kids drawing self induced disability benefit,they´re `p*ssing themselves laughing´and this is what´s going to have to change, but how?

No work no benefits?I don´t know if democracy is the best form of governing but Capitalism only leaves the rest with no money as it´s theft on a large scale,you only have to see your money disapearing every time a jet hits a skyscraper or a banker gets a multi million dollar bonus to know where the money´s coming from,your pocket.
We can only hope that they´ll choke trying to eat the stuff.
 
#10
I'd have no problem with some form of meritocracy, where by if you pay tax you get a vote. If unable to find employment which these days is unfortunately common a substantial amount of voluntary/community service would gain you voting rights. Any major criminal convictions, such as murder, rape, drug dealing, treason/terrorism result in lost of voting rights for life. Foreign nationals must pay tax for five years to receive citizenship and the vote. Just a rough outline fully await for holes to be punched in it.
Way back that was more or less the system with local government... If you paid rates you had a vote. In addition if you owned a business you paid both domestic rates and business rates and so (as you paid twice) you had two votes. To be honest I am not sure if the double vote applied in 'UK mainland' but it most certainly did in N Ireland and look at the trouble that (or the memory of that) caused.
 
#11
I don´t think the problem of the future generations will be the form of government but the spread of money or means of existence,as long as the starving are stuck in AIDS riddled Africa we the basically rich in food and materials are secure in our beds,however should the prolls or other western countries peoples start starving then we´ll all be in the sh*te.

To disenfranchise large chunks of the poulation wouldn´t be a great problem as long as they believe that the government won´t betray them or that they will act in their interest even though they have no vote.I can vote in local and EU elections but not in National ones as I´m not a German though I´ve been paying taxes etc for nearly 30 years,a Pole with German ancestors gets the vote as soon as he gets his passport without having paid a penny in tax!

Though I wont be around to see it I think the only way forward will be a form of socialism linked to working for rewards,a sort of ´Star Trek`world where credits instead of money take over and you get what you need to survive,with the World´s population growing food and water will become the reasons for war or invasion.

Restricting votes to an intellectual minority or demanding service for them would only lead to a return to the 19th century when people died to secure the right to say how the country was run,it would be a return to virtual slavery although we probably already have a version of that with the working population being asked to hand over more than 50% of their income,they´ve got 50 inch flat screen telly´s and a BMW in the garage and are `happy´and `content´like cows in a heated milking stall.

The non working families have 60 inch flat screen telly,a BMW they rent out as a taxi and 3 kids drawing self induced disability benefit,they´re `p*ssing themselves laughing´and this is what´s going to have to change, but how?

No work no benefits?I don´t know if democracy is the best form of governing but Capitalism only leaves the rest with no money as it´s theft on a large scale,you only have to see your money disapearing every time a jet hits a skyscraper or a banker gets a multi million dollar bonus to know where the money´s coming from,your pocket.
We can only hope that they´ll choke trying to eat the stuff.
You what?

Democracy and capitalism are the least worst systems ever devised (and capitalism isn't even really a system: it's the natural state of affairs which occurs when people are free to interact economically).

Everything else ever devised has been worse. So unless you can do better than the last couple of hundred years of clever people who have tried, stop whining.
 
#12
Plutocracy,with an element of Meritocracy.
Stakeholder democracy: you get a number of votes in some proportion to the amount of tax you have paid.

After all, tax money is money stolen from you, so the more you have had taken the more you should have a say in how it is used ;)
 
#13
Stoaty,
you can pick as many holes you want in our comments but I don´t read any of your comments on how democracy is the best system,as for Capitalism it´s interesting to see that the richest of them are giving billions back as they´ve realised there´s not enough going around to keep filling their troughs.Greed though natural normally has nasty repucussions when the prolls stop getting their crust.

PS,I´m not whining as I´m doing all right thank you Jack;)
 
#14
Stoaty,
you can pick as many holes you want in our comments but I don´t read any of your comments on how democracy is the best system,as for Capitalism it´s interesting to see that the richest of them are giving billions back as they´ve realised there´s not enough going around to keep filling their troughs.Greed though natural normally has nasty repucussions when the prolls stop getting their crust.

PS,I´m not whining as I´m doing all right thank you Jack;)
... err you what?

Who is giving billions back to whom?

I want names, and I want to know why I didn't get any of the money back that they supposedly stole from me...

The only person stealing from me right now is the taxman.
 
#15
Further to last: a simple measure of how democracy is the least worst system -- democratic governments kill less of their own people than any other form of government. See, for instance, the work of Rummel at the University of Hawaii who has made his career studying democide.
 
#16
It is the least worst.
 
#17
I'd have no problem with some form of meritocracy, where by if you pay tax you get a vote. If unable to find employment which these days is unfortunately common a substantial amount of voluntary/community service would gain you voting rights. Any major criminal convictions, such as murder, rape, drug dealing, treason/terrorism result in lost of voting rights for life. Foreign nationals must pay tax for five years to receive citizenship and the vote. Just a rough outline fully await for holes to be punched in it.
Sounds a reasonable proposition to me, also ensure the same foreign nationals would not be entitled to Free health
service, council housing, education or any other of our welfare benefits until at having spent at least 5 years, possibly 10 years paying tax, they would have to pay into some form of private insurance prior to this as well to cover them for health care as well as the normal NI payments!
I would also like to see Politicians held more responsible for their actions whilst in power, any blatent malfeasance, expense fiddling, lying ala Bliar & Brown, should result in prosecution and if found guilty a total ban on any future public office linked with confiscation of their illgotten gains, pensions, houses, off shore a/c's, speaking & book revenues etc, to the public purse! This would make them consider any future actions whilst in office with a bit more caution!
 
#18
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for the all others"- can't remember who it's a quote from, probably Douglas Adams.
 
#19
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for the all others"- can't remember who it's a quote from, probably Douglas Adams.
Its Churchill come on thats an easy one! UR I'm in now way advocating more than one vote per person I just believe there should be a minimum threshold in order to qualify for a vote specially to disenfranchise the bottomfeeders and professional dolers who have far too much of a say in modern British democracy than they have any right to.
 
#20
... err you what?

Who is giving billions back to whom?

I want names, and I want to know why I didn't get any of the money back that they supposedly stole from me...

The only person stealing from me right now is the taxman.
You're right Stoats, as usual. How can any system hold the moral highground and claim to be the best form of government, when it openly demands money with menaces? How is it illegal for a loan-shark to kidnap you mob-handed and then lock you up until you pay, but legal for the Queen to do exactly the same thing?

Bring on the revolution Citizen.
 

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