Is American lawmaker right?

John Murtha

  • is absolutely right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • is right but should wait for the end of the investigation

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • partially right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • is rather wrong

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • is absolutely wrong

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • he is a traitor and should be jailed immediately

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2006051...YOQOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

A US lawmaker and retired Marine colonel accused US marines of killing innocent Iraqi civilians after a Marine comrade was slain by a roadside bomb.

"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," John Murtha told reporters.

"There was no firefight" that led to the shootings at close range, the Vietnam war veteran said, contradicting early official accounts saying a roadside bomb had killed the Iraqis in the November 19 incident.

"There were no (roadside bombs) that killed these innocent people," he said.
 
#2
You don't have enough options here, Sergey.

How about one that is that this Representative M is using this as ammunition to further is own political aims?

I will agree that I personally think there is more to these deaths than simple IEDs BUT as there is an investigation, it should be allowed to run to completion without unnecessary political pressure being placed on the investigators.

The truth should come out in the wash.

Are you trying to suggest that this bloke is speaking out now because he has no confidence in the US CoC getting the investigation "right"?
 
#3
Jeez Sergey, you like to stir the sh1t, dont you? Let the investigation run its course and wait for the outcome. Murtha has an agenda of his own.
 
#4
in_the_cheapseats said:
You don't have enough options here, Sergey.

How about one that is that this Representative M is using this as ammunition to further is own political aims?

I will agree that I personally think there is more to these deaths than simple IEDs BUT as there is an investigation, it should be allowed to run to completion without unnecessary political pressure being placed on the investigators.

The truth should come out in the wash.

Are you trying to suggest that this bloke is speaking out now because he has no confidence in the US CoC getting the investigation "right"?
In_the_cheapseats!

I realised just now that my question contains at least two separate questions:

1. Is mr.Murtha right in his suggestions about alleged war crimes? - Who knows? Maybe he is right, maybe no. We haven't enough information to make any conclusions.

2. Is mr.Murtha right from moral point of view? Is his understanding of his duty as a lawmaker right? Is he really an American patriot of a typical politician with a selfish agenda? - I don't know the right answer, though I suspect that there is at least an element of self-advert.
 
#5
He's right in the case of these individuals, but he's making them a reflection of all the marines in Haditha (my friend served there last year, and is shocked that something like this happened, and doesn't fully believe it yet), and basically all coalition troops in Iraq. I hope the men responsible for this crime are punished, but there shouldn't be a witch-hunt.
 
#6
Not terribly impressed about Murtha jumping in ahead of the report, but it makes sure that it isn't buried in the Friday trash. I don't think Murtha is doing this for political advancement. He's held his seat for 32 years, it is as safe as can be and he has no further ambitions towards higher office and already serves on the committees he wants.

On the other hand he is a 37yr veteran of the USMC and USMCR (enlisting as a ranker and was a DI at Parris Island before he was commissioned. He retired as a Col in 1990) and fought in the Korea & Vietnam wars. He might be a bit of a geezer, but he knows what he's talking about and has earned the right, by virtue of his position and experience, to speak out.

For a more complete account: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/

Military officials told NBC News that the Marine Corps' own evidence appears to show Murtha is right.
Military officials say Marine Corps photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.

“This one is ugly," one official told NBC News.

Three Marine officers — commanders in Haditha — have been relieved of duty, and at least 12 Marines in all are under investigation for what would be the worst single incident involving the deliberate killing of civilians by U.S. military in Iraq.
 
#7
KGB_resident said:
in_the_cheapseats said:
You don't have enough options here, Sergey.

How about one that is that this Representative M is using this as ammunition to further is own political aims?

I will agree that I personally think there is more to these deaths than simple IEDs BUT as there is an investigation, it should be allowed to run to completion without unnecessary political pressure being placed on the investigators.

The truth should come out in the wash.

Are you trying to suggest that this bloke is speaking out now because he has no confidence in the US CoC getting the investigation "right"?
In_the_cheapseats!

I realised just now that my question contains at least two separate questions:

1. Is mr.Murtha right in his suggestions about alleged war crimes? - Who knows? Maybe he is right, maybe no. We haven't enough information to make any conclusions.Is murtha right? possibly, the article 32 investigation will tell, I can only say from personal experience that the investigators will look into every thing the unit involved does or does not do. If there is wrongdoing-it will be prosecuted.

2. Is mr.Murtha right from moral point of view? Is his understanding of his duty as a lawmaker right? Is he really an American patriot of a typical politician with a selfish agenda? - I don't know the right answer, though I suspect that there is at least an element of self-advert.
Murtha is first & foremost for Murtha(it's an election year for congress). That said "War Crimes" should not be tolerated, it is morally repugnant.I can understand the emotions at the time, when I was wounded by an IED, my unit would have strung up the triggerman had they caught him. They didnt because the NCO's kept them focused. But, I find it hard to believe that U.S.Marines would deliberately kill women, children not involved in the fighting.
 
#8
Chief_Joseph said:
He's right in the case of these individuals, but he's making them a reflection of all the marines in Haditha (my friend served there last year, and is shocked that something like this happened, and doesn't fully believe it yet), and basically all coalition troops in Iraq. I hope the men responsible for this crime are punished, but there shouldn't be a witch-hunt.
Chief, take a look at Murtha's resume before you start making wild accusations. I suggest you go and read the full text of his statement too. He's been there and done it, whereas you're a pimple-faced teenager who's still in high school.

Your enthusiasm is admirable, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

I maintain that if these reports are substantiated, it would be the conduct of the Marines in question that reflects badly on the Corps, and will make life for their comrades in Iraq more difficult, not Murtha's statement. The Iraqis are already aware of what is said to have occured that day.
 
#9
On a further note, it's just "Heartwarming" to see Congressman Murtha ( a former U.S.Marine Reserve Officer) has proclaimed these Marines as "Cold blooded Killers" even before the investigation has ended. "Innocent until proven Guilty" means nothing to him presumably(as long as he's re-elected). "Semper Fi Mac"
 
#10
LineDoggie said:
On a further note, it's just "Heartwarming" to see Congressman Murtha ( a former U.S.Marine Reserve Officer) has proclaimed these Marines as "Cold blooded Killers" even before the investigation has ended. "Innocent until proven Guilty" means nothing to him presumably(as long as he's re-elected). "Semper Fi Mac"
LinDoggie, your logic is spurious. Murtha has had the Penn 12th sewn up from the get-go. It's smack in the middle of the rust belt (Deerhunter Country for you film buffs) and blue collar types love him. As far as the charge of him breaking faith with his Marines, you have to weigh up 37yrs of service, volunteering to go to Vietnam and a 34 year career in Congress (he was the first Vietnam veteran to be elected to Congress, btw) that is highlighted by his work on Veterans affairs and National Security.

The only political thing this could be a part of is the campaign to get that darling of the extreme right and "man on dog action" enthusiast, Rick Santorum, out of his Senate seat.
 
#11
crabtastic said:
Chief_Joseph said:
He's right in the case of these individuals, but he's making them a reflection of all the marines in Haditha (my friend served there last year, and is shocked that something like this happened, and doesn't fully believe it yet), and basically all coalition troops in Iraq. I hope the men responsible for this crime are punished, but there shouldn't be a witch-hunt.
Chief, take a look at Murtha's resume before you start making wild accusations. I suggest you go and read the full text of his statement too. He's been there and done it, whereas you're a pimple-faced teenager who's still in high school.

Your enthusiasm is admirable, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

I maintain that if these reports are substantiated, it would be the conduct of the Marines in question that reflects badly on the Corps, and will make life for their comrades in Iraq more difficult, not Murtha's statement. The Iraqis are already aware of what is said to have occured that day.
I guess I didn't say it right. Yes, the actions of those marines are the problem. It will reflect poorly on the Corps. Their actions are going to cause problems for their comrades and allies. If they are guilty, they should be held accountable for (1) Their crime against innocent people (2) The damage their actions do to the Coalitions ability to interact with Iraqis (3) Dishonoring their country (4) Dishonoring the corps

I'm not attacking Murtha, a man who I've tradtionally held in rather high regard, nor denying these allegations. I'm skeptical because he is a politician. Politicians started this mess, and now they want shift the blame to the men and women they sent out there. I will not say that I know whats best, I don't. The conflict is just too dynamic and complex to take a steady position on it.
 
#13
tomahawk6 said:
He should have waited until after the investigation was concluded before making his comments.
BINGO, and as a Former Officer He knows that, If these Marines turn out to be innocent how do you think they feel hearing a Former Marine & Elected Official of their Government make such comments? Sorry, I think he lost any respect due when declaring these Troops guilty of cold-blooded murder in the press before the investigation has been concluded.
 
#14
once upon a time there was a little village called My Lai.......................

and because of that there is now something called the Medina standard.

let the inquest take its cource..................... and when its over lets see who was in command.
 

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