Irishmen Serving with the British Army/Navy's burial rights

#1
First and fore most wats the story lads... im new to the forum so be gentle and apologies for my first post bein based around a subject no one in an armed force wants to think about but.....

I'm currently in the Reserve Defence Forces in Ireland... 3 star private in 65th BN 3 years (nearly 4) under me belt.... and i missed out on the recent PDF recruitment.... or more accuratley they deemed me not good enough to be one of the 40 they take on this time round and i blame it on my departure from the country and application on the last day but thats just so i feel better... though i am 63rd on some mysterious list... but toss that am not waitin around fingers crossed...

I rang the boys with the union jack on there arm today and told them i wanted in and have ordered info packs from the Army Paras and Royal Irish and the Navy Marine Commandos.

So my mate asked me today over a pint whats the story as he's an armchair RA head and was trying to figure out if he wanted to associate with me anymore asking do i have to wear the union jack and i was like ye.... and do i have to come serve in the north if they ask me to and i was like no.... and then he asked do i have to pledge allegiance to the Queen and when i'm buried if i opt for a guard of honor will i be buried with a British or Irish flag... and these are 2 things i hadn't taught about now ya might think i'm jumpin the gun here lets just get to the day of acceptance first but its somethin thats playing on my mind now...

i know in the PDF you have an option what you take ur oath on and im wondering is it the same for the British army and royal navy

and....

with burial is it possible to opt for a tricolor or would that exclude u from receiving your guard of honor?

any insight on the matter much appreciated lads :grin:
 
#3
Everyone takes the oath.
ah ye i know that everyone has to take on oath... but does it need to be taken to the queen (realistically i already know the answer as she is your head of state) and if your not a religious person saying so help me god does not really validate the oath and thus my point arises that an oath should be taken on something you believe in i.e your will to protect your fellow soldiers in the line of duty....

Funeral is the decision of you or your family, it can be civilian or military. MoD pays.
And ye i know you don't need the guard of honor its totally down to preference but i'm saying if one did take a military funeral it would also be necessary to take the British flag or would one be dawned with the flag of their nationality?
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
I'm assuming this isn't a wah although given the 'paddywackery' style of writing 'I hae ma doots' as my lot would say. So on the off chance that its a serious question I'll give a serious answer.

You have to take an oath or affirmation of allegiance to the Queen. Affirmations don't involve all the imaginary friend nonsense. The monarchy is part of the constitutional arrangement in the UK and you could see the oath/affirmation as a promise to uphold that arrangement. If that is a problem for you then you really should not be joining the BRITISH Army.

You could compare it to the American arrangement where they swear or affirm on enlistment to obey the President. Very few US soldiers have any personal loyalty to the current President. In fact most of those I've met are distinctly anti-Bam Bam.

You can certainly choose any of the flags of the UK instead of the Union Flag. I'm pretty sure that some of our commonwealth soldiers have chosen the flags from their country of origin so I'd be surprised if you could not choose the Tricolour.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
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#5
Rest assured that should this become necessary in your case (and I sincerely hope it does not) then you will not really care what piece of cloth covers your box.

To date, and to the best of my knowledge, there have been no complaints received from deceased soldiers.
 
#6
Kiddeh

Ill save you the trouble, if youre so hung up on religion then stay at home and play soldiers at weekends - sounds to me like thats all youre capable of
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#7
Kiddeh

Ill save you the trouble, if youre so hung up on religion then stay at home and play soldiers at weekends - sounds to me like thats all youre capable of
If we're taking him at face value I think you're being a tad harsh. Anyone considering joining a foreign army needs to have a serious think about loyalties. I tend to think all that stuff about Union Flags and the Queen is superficial or missing the point but the serious point is that if you join the British Army you are expected to be loyal to Britain and its way of life. That's what the taxpayer is paying you for.

BTB That does not mean that you cannot remain loyal to other countries such as the Republic. It does not even mean that you could not favour a 'united Ireland'. Its a perfectly legitimate view to hold provided you don't support unconstitutional means for achieving it.
 
#8
Youre missing the point, at the moment he is serving in the reserve and likes the idea of being a proper soldier - probably came on this site just to make himself feel good. As you can tell from my user name , am from the republic , have no worries with the oath but this clown has come on here to stir it up - imho
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#9
I got the point and I think there is a good chance that this is a wah but on the off chance that its legit I'm giving him a straight answer.
 
#10
@ BuggerAll
sorry if it seemed if i was having a go, just makes my blood boil when some lowlife who supports terrorism comes to a site like this Am sure, if he is a ra supporter, he is getting his jollies reading this If on the other hand he is genuine then i stand corrected and will march myself to the guardroom for a stern talking to !
 
#11
@ BuggerAll
sorry if it seemed if i was having a go, just makes my blood boil when some lowlife who supports terrorism comes to a site like this Am sure, if he is a ra supporter, he is getting his jollies reading this If on the other hand he is genuine then i stand corrected and will march myself to the guardroom for a stern talking to !
jesus a nice warm welcome to the site anyway.... no im not a RA head and as i said some of my mates are armchair ones... apologies i come from a shinner area in Dublin but thats just that... and leinsterlad jeez i hope ur a child cause then i'd expect no more than bashin someone with a legitimate question but if ur not u need a serious look at ur mental capacity mate...

I'm assuming this isn't a wah although given the 'paddywackery' style of writing 'I hae ma doots' as my lot would say. So on the off chance that its a serious question I'll give a serious answer.
dont know what a WAH is man any chance of enlightenment?

You have to take an oath or affirmation of allegiance to the Queen. Affirmations don't involve all the imaginary friend nonsense. The monarchy is part of the constitutional arrangement in the UK and you could see the oath/affirmation as a promise to uphold that arrangement. If that is a problem for you then you really should not be joining the BRITISH Army.
Ye i woulda taught so in Ireland its the same you swear an oath on the current government and any government party which may come to power during you service although its not necessary to take it on the bible... but its understandable since the queen doesn't change every few years that its a logical thing to swear on

You can certainly choose any of the flags of the UK instead of the Union Flag. I'm pretty sure that some of our commonwealth soldiers have chosen the flags from their country of origin so I'd be surprised if you could not choose the Tricolour.
Nice to know that its a possibility it'll be something i might ask my recruiter... hope he wont take it the wrong way like "someone" did anyway just to clarify i've no problem with england or the queen or the union jack.... of course like anyone i'm not happy about our history but if ya look at it logically where would Ireland be if they hadn't come over? still speaking Irish at a disadvantage in world markets with shite infrastructure etc.... im not happy bout how it happened but the brits holdin our hands for a while put me where i am today and i'm happy with that :)

Thanks for the response question answered, you can lock thread up if ya like well after someone tells me what a wah is ;P
 
#12
Ahh bejeebers and begorrah!! A Wah is...But that's another story you little leprechaun ya!!!
 
#13
ah fair enough the way an irish man speaks..... this would generally be a time for me ta start saying things like "well i'd ra-ver speex like tha irishmanz than a mong" but that would be in-sighting and implying that all brits speak like twats when thats just not true! anyway good banter ya coonts thanks for reply :-D
 
#14
do i have to come serve in the north if they ask me to
The answer to that AFAIK is yes.... if that is where you are posted. There are units garrisoned there but the army no longer patrols the streets.

do i have to pledge allegiance to the Queen
Yes


and when i'm buried if i opt for a guard of honor will i be buried with a British or Irish flag...
You won't opt for anything.... your family might! Not sure about the flag.

i know in the PDF you have an option what you take ur oath on
PDF - You take an oath or make a declaration (if you have no religious believes or it is contary to your religious beliefs. As far as I know it must be taken on the new testament (I think there is an option on your own religious book).

ah ye i know that everyone has to take on oath... but does it need to be taken to the queen (realistically i already know the answer as she is your head of state) and if your not a religious person saying so help me god does not really validate the oath and thus my point arises that an oath should be taken on something you believe in i.e your will to protect your fellow soldiers in the line of duty....
I really hope this is a retorical question!

And ye i know you don't need the guard of honor its totally down to preference but i'm saying if one did take a military funeral it would also be necessary to take the British flag or would one be dawned with the flag of their nationality?
When LCpl Ian Malone (ex FCA) was buried in Dublin, his bearer party were from the Irish Guards and there was no flag on the coffin.

Its a perfectly legitimate view to hold provided you don't support unconstitutional means for achieving it.
Very well put!

in Ireland its the same you swear an oath on the current government and any government party which may come to power during you service although its not necessary to take it on the bible...
Not sure what organisation you joined!
I, ..............................................................................................................., do solemnly
swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that
while I am a member of the Reserve Defence Force I will obey all lawful orders issued to
me by my superior officers and will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret
society whatsoever.
(quoted from the Defence Acts).
 
#15
The answer to that AFAIK is yes.... if that is where you are posted. There are units garrisoned there but the army no longer patrols the streets.
oooh.... i taught it was a case that an Irishman didn't have to serve in the north for some reason... i apparently stand corrected though apologies

When LCpl Ian Malone (ex FCA) was buried in Dublin, his bearer party were from the Irish Guards and there was no flag on the coffin.
ah right thats a useful piece of information thanks... i shall be looking that one up...

Not sure what organisation you joined!
I, ..............................................................................................................., do solemnly
swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that
while I am a member of the Reserve Defence Force I will obey all lawful orders issued to
me by my superior officers and will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret
society whatsoever.
(quoted from the Defence Acts).
Dunno it was a few years ago... i somehow remember swearing on the constitution and to whatever government was elected to power by the people and Irish democracy but obviously i am mistaken... honestly the strangest thing about swearing in was the fact i did it on the golden pages as i'm not religious... and before anyone starts bashing the RDF that sure as shit didn't affect anything i did in or for the defence forces and i have served the time i swore to do (No less than 3 Years) and am going for 4 just taught i'd knock that on the head before someone try's to take the piss...
 
#19
Dunno it was a few years ago... i somehow remember swearing on the constitution and to whatever government was elected to power by the people and Irish democracy but obviously i am mistaken... honestly the strangest thing about swearing in was the fact i did it on the golden pages as i'm not religious... and before anyone starts bashing the RDF that sure as shit didn't affect anything i did in or for the defence forces and i have served the time i swore to do (No less than 3 Years) and am going for 4 just taught i'd knock that on the head before someone try's to take the piss...
Your attesting officer should be battered to dead with the Golden Pages!

Didn't swear/declare exactly as the above then you haven't joined the RDF, you also have to sign a form that states the above.

What coy are you in? C Coy by any chance?
 
#20
no comment mate as i'm not in the business of gettin folks in trouble and as i said i dont remember really so that was probably it word for word but i'm also not rain-man or anything like him so apologies for not remembering somethin from when i was but a nipper....

irlsgt u in the reserve? if so what Bn? not gonna ask company as i'm not divulging that info to yourself so twud be rude for me to ask u
 
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