Irish War of Independence centenary

3 July 1920

Head Constable Samuel Perrott died of injuries received during a riot in Belfast on 27 June when he was struck on the head by a stone. A native of Bandon, Co Cork, he was aged 49, married with six children.

89422 Sgt William Penson-Harris, 21st Bde, Royal Field Artillery, died in the Military Hospital in Fermoy, Co. Cork. Penson-Harris had been in charge of a patrol on Rathealy Road in Fermoy at about 12:30 a.m. on 28 June. Driver F. W. Geldart, asked him for the time, and while getting a watch out of his trousers pocket a Verey pistol Penson-Harris was carrying in his belt went off. Penson-Harris suffered severe burns to his left thigh for which he delayed seeking medical treatment. The injury turned septic and ultimately proved fatal. Penson-Harris is buried at Great Rollright in Oxfordshire.

In Wexford, the trial of seven men for the murder of Ellen Morris, The Ballagh, during an IRA arms raid began. Only 52 of the 100 summoned jurors attended, the judge noting it might be difficult to form a jury. John Lacey, who confessed to shooting Mrs. Morris by accident had his plea of guilty to manslaughter accepted by the judge. The court was subject to heavy security with the Army mounting a machine gun of the roof of the courthouse.

Incidents of the IRA cutting young women's hair off were growing with reported cases near Tralee and in Portmagee. In the latter two young women had their hair sheared in for being on friendly terms with policemen.
In the last line about two young women in Portmagee.
My Farther was neighbors, and knew the Family very well, the two women were sisters ( I will not mention their names) They were on "friendly" terms with British soldiers not policemen. The policeman assigned to the village Constable Murphy, was sympathetic towards the IRA. He helped to safe the life of my granduncle who was a officer in the IRA, when he was captured by the British army. They were planning on shooting my grand uncle, their excuse was to be "he tried to escape"
 
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11 July 1920

Men from three brigades - East Limerick, North and South Tipperary, attacked the RIC Barracks in Rearcross, Co. Tipperary. The RIC successfully defended the barracks despite the attack going on all night. Sgt John Stokes was killed when he went outside to fire on men on the barracks roof. Former Army officer, Stokes was a Barrack Defence Officer, 21 years old and from Co. Down.

Members of the 5th Battalion, Kerry No. 2 Brigade, with assistance from men from Scartaglin and Ballymacelligott companies, attacked the RIC barracks at Rathmore. One RIC man, Constable Alexander Will, was killed in the attack which went on all night. The IRA had brought an old cannon, taken from the walls of Ross Castle near Killarney, to Rathmore to use it in the attack but they could not manoeuvre it into a firing position.

Constable Will was from Forfar, Scotland and had joined the RIC in London on the 30th March 1920. He was 24 and of course a Great War veteran. Constable Linnane and Constable Nagle were wounded in the attack.

The IRA in Cork city burned a number of buildings, including one known as the Cat Fort, presumably to prevent its being used to house troops. The fort was the home of Arthur Ward, his wife Mary Anne and their son Henry. Arthur Ward was employed as a caretaker by the Cork Y.M.C.A. Mrs Ward died of a heart attack while being removed from her home.

https://theirishrevolution.ie/1920-32/#.XwGpzihKiM8

Ormonde Winter, wrote to the Under Secretary, John Anderson, asking for written permission to recruit the Auxiliaries
 
Point of order were the warrants lawful and legal according to the laws at the time or was there any reviews
I assume so. Of course it depends on ones point of view. Officially the Free State executed 77 (or 81 according to Wikipedia) men during the Civil War which causes some anger in Republican circles even today.

Executions during the Irish Civil War - Wikipedia

By contrast the British executed 24 people in the War of Independence by the way. Of course in both conflicts many more were "shot while trying to escape" or in some instances walked into their own IED while trying to escape.
 
Nasty distasteful unpleasant no matter how you word it the war of independence produced a lot of bitterness that held sway for a long time
 
I assume so. Of course it depends on ones point of view. Officially the Free State executed 77 (or 81 according to Wikipedia) men during the Civil War which causes some anger in Republican circles even today.

Executions during the Irish Civil War - Wikipedia

By contrast the British executed 24 people in the War of Independence by the way. Of course in both conflicts many more were "shot while trying to escape" or in some instances walked into their own IED while trying to escape.
They moan about the Auxillaries, but it seems that the Free State CID could have taught them a thing are too. You can see why the Prods in the North were not enamoured about a United Ireland. Especially when a lot of their co religionists were being killed or driven out in the South. Something that Ian Paisley was making great capital out of in the seventies.

There must have been an easier way to do this. I know the Irish like their heroic myths, but they would have got their independence anyway. I wonder if things would have been different if John Redmond had not been killed in WW1 and the Easter uprising had not happened. Could they have had a United Ireland thirty or fifty years ago.
 
They moan about the Auxillaries, but it seems that the Free State CID could have taught them a thing are too. You can see why the Prods in the North were not enamoured about a United Ireland. Especially when a lot of their co religionists were being killed or driven out in the South. Something that Ian Paisley was making great capital out of in the seventies.

There must have been an easier way to do this. I know the Irish like their heroic myths, but they would have got their independence anyway. I wonder if things would have been different if John Redmond had not been killed in WW1 and the Easter uprising had not happened. Could they have had a United Ireland thirty or fifty years ago.
Make no mistake about them the Auxillaries made the waffen ss appear like the salvation army. The protestant north were not enamoured due to the sectarian abuse that has never really gone away.
There is a key point in the home rule bill of 1914 you may wish to study.

When you read the bill see the point that the irish(who were at the time fairly to highly well educated and not dumb peasants) really objected to
 
They moan about the Auxillaries, but it seems that the Free State CID could have taught them a thing are too. You can see why the Prods in the North were not enamoured about a United Ireland. Especially when a lot of their co religionists were being killed or driven out in the South. Something that Ian Paisley was making great capital out of in the seventies.

There must have been an easier way to do this. I know the Irish like their heroic myths, but they would have got their independence anyway. I wonder if things would have been different if John Redmond had not been killed in WW1 and the Easter uprising had not happened. Could they have had a United Ireland thirty or fifty years ago.
The Loyalists weren't having an Ireland outside the UK no matter what happened. They opposed Home Rule going back to the First Home Rule Bill in the 1880s so the actions of the IRA and the Free State had no bearing on their attitude. The northerners were happy to throw their southern compatriots under the bus to make sure their own little state stayed in the union though.

It was Willy Redmond who was killed at Messines Ridge. John Redmond died of natural causes in 1918. Home Rule was a dead duck by 1918 anyway. Public opinion had turned against it after the 1916 executions and the Conscription Crisis of 1918. SF swept the board in the 1918 GE and the 1920 Local elections on a promise of a full-blown republic which the British were not going to agree to. Apart from the war being a battle to drive the British out, it was also a battle to determine who the new masters would be.
 
The Loyalists weren't having an Ireland outside the UK no matter what happened. They opposed Home Rule going back to the First Home Rule Bill in the 1880s so the actions of the IRA and the Free State had no bearing on their attitude. The northerners were happy to throw their southern compatriots under the bus to make sure their own little state stayed in the union though.

It was Willy Redmond who was killed at Messines Ridge. John Redmond died of natural causes in 1918. Home Rule was a dead duck by 1918 anyway. Public opinion had turned against it after the 1916 executions and the Conscription Crisis of 1918. SF swept the board in the 1918 GE and the 1920 Local elections on a promise of a full-blown republic which the British were not going to agree to. Apart from the war being a battle to drive the British out, it was also a battle to determine who the new masters would be.
Wasn’t the masters of Ireland the bankers n clergy
 
Incidentally there is only a year left in this thread.
 
The laying of the Regimental colours at Windsor Castle could be classed as the end of British Involvement.
At the risk of straying into the Cival war era I have to disagree as there was British military involvement during that period, aiding Free State forces against the Anti-Treatyites.
 
12 July 1920

Adjutant Patrick Hassett E Company, 2 Battalion, West Clare Brigade received a gun shot wound to the shoulder during a raid for arms at Kilmore House, County Clare. He died of the injury on 20 July.

1st Bn, Manchester Regt arrived in Ballincollig. Detachments in Macroom, Ballyvourney, Inchigeela and Millstreet.

An RIC Constable called Murphy was dismissed from the force for refusing to man a barricade at Clontarf with British soldiers.

Eilís MacCurtain, the widow of Tomás, the Lord Mayor of Cork assassinated by the RIC in March, gave birth to stillborn twins.
 
1922-23 is pretty interesting too....
Yes it is. Of course the Truce period saw frequent breaches by both sides as well. We could probably just continue this thread to May 1923.
 
At the risk of straying into the Cival war era I have to disagree as there was British military involvement during that period, aiding Free State forces against the Anti-Treatyites.
Was this beyond the Four Courts incident. I have never read of any further British military involvement other than that. Although I believe there were implied threats from Churchill to Collins for the Free State to get their house in order.
 
The Loyalists weren't having an Ireland outside the UK no matter what happened. They opposed Home Rule going back to the First Home Rule Bill in the 1880s so the actions of the IRA and the Free State had no bearing on their attitude. The northerners were happy to throw their southern compatriots under the bus to make sure their own little state stayed in the union though.

It was Willy Redmond who was killed at Messines Ridge. John Redmond died of natural causes in 1918. Home Rule was a dead duck by 1918 anyway. Public opinion had turned against it after the 1916 executions and the Conscription Crisis of 1918. SF swept the board in the 1918 GE and the 1920 Local elections on a promise of a full-blown republic which the British were not going to agree to. Apart from the war being a battle to drive the British out, it was also a battle to determine who the new masters would be.
Well the 1919-21 campaign failed to drive the British out of all Ireland and establish a 32 county republic and the 1969 to 2007 campaign failed to drive the British out of the remaining 6 counties and establish a 32 county United Irish Republic.
 

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