Irish War of Independence centenary

Are there any eyewitness accounts on line?
I can't connect to the BMH for some reason but a man named Tom Shalloo left a witness statement in which he goes into some detail about the ambush despite claiming not to have been there. Other participants were Peadar O'Laughlin, Daniel Tarpey, Pat Powell (Birr), J.J Markham, Austin Geraghty and Pat Ward. Any of them could have left a statement too. Powell was a deserter from the British Army.

Interestingly Lady Beatrice may have been the wife of Guglielmo Marconi.. Given the status of the ambushees the local or even national newspapers may have interviewed some or all of them too.
 
I can't connect to the BMH for some reason but a man named Tom Shalloo left a witness statement in which he goes into some detail about the ambush despite claiming not to have been there. Other participants were Peadar O'Laughlin, Daniel Tarpey, Pat Powell (Birr), J.J Markham, Austin Geraghty and Pat Ward. Any of them could have left a statement too. Powell was a deserter from the British Army.

Interestingly Lady Beatrice may have been the wife of Guglielmo Marconi.. Given the status of the ambushees the local or even national newspapers may have interviewed some or all of them too.
My curiosity is picqued by the fact that the shooting party were able to react at all let alone as effectively as they apparently did.
 
If I am following this correctly you are weighing in the side of @Mike Barton against @PhotEx. In all seriousness, before the thread progresses any further I'd like to just have a go at clarifying a few issues. Hopefully for everyones benefit, including mine becuse if the following is not correct I have got the wrong end of a couple of sticks.

Mike, if I recall correctly, has told us that he comes from a Unionist background but is (too put it mildly) disenchanted with those of that background. Photex on the other hand seems to hail from the ROI, to have been educated in the ROI by some branch of the Catholic Church and has issues with those who educated him. Mike has (I think) taken Photex to task for being a unionist hypocitically criticising the ROI.

@PhotEx and @Mike Barton have I managed to precis your backgrounds correctly?
Whatever they are arguing about I’m just saying that RoI is now the more liberal than NI.

and the DUP (Protestant fundamentalists) are the main reason as they are strongly opposed to both
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
If I am following this correctly you are weighing in the side of @Mike Barton against @PhotEx. In all seriousness, before the thread progresses any further I'd like to just have a go at clarifying a few issues. Hopefully for everyones benefit, including mine becuse if the following is not correct I have got the wrong end of a couple of sticks.

Mike, if I recall correctly, has told us that he comes from a Unionist background but is (too put it mildly) disenchanted with those of that background. Photex on the other hand seems to hail from the ROI, to have been educated in the ROI by some branch of the Catholic Church and has issues with those who educated him. Mike has (I think) taken Photex to task for being a unionist hypocitically criticising the ROI.

@PhotEx and @Mike Barton have I managed to precis your backgrounds correctly?
Not 100% correct but, yeah, close enough for the purposes of this discussion.

I did mistakenly assume earlier that Photex was a northern unionist, I mixed his moniker up with that of another poster, for which I apologise.

But I feel my overall analysis stands up well.

I also fail to see what the relevance of our respective personal backgrounds have to do with anything. Either we have facts and statistics on our sides or we rely on anecdotal evidence, in my opinion the former trumps and a poster's personal upbringing is neither here nor there.
 

Duke_of_Kaos

War Hero
Mike Barton, crimes rates in Ireland have been historically under recorded and if you look at the recent recording rates and the trends then you might notice that violent crime and gun crime are ramping up considerably.
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More liberal? Legally certainly. Everyone therein? Not so straightforward.
Absolutely don’t forget in Ireland we have to have referendums on these issues so we can measure public opinion:

1983 - 66% voted to makes abortion illegal
1992 - 65% voted to not allow the potential for suicide to be allowed to taken into account to allow an abortion
1992 - 62% voted to allow people to travel & receive information on abortion services outside the State
2002 - 50.2% voted to not allow the potential for suicide to be allowed to taken into account to allow an abortion
2018 - 66% voted to make abortion legal


2015 - 62% voted to allow same sex marriage
 
Not 100% correct but, yeah, close enough for the purposes of this discussion.

I did mistakenly assume earlier that Photex was a northern unionist, I mixed his moniker up with that of another poster, for which I apologise.

But I feel my overall analysis stands up well.

I also fail to see what the relevance of our respective personal backgrounds have to do with anything. Either we have facts and statistics on our sides or we rely on anecdotal evidence, in my opinion the former trumps and a poster's personal upbringing is neither here nor there.
No need to apologise to me. I was just wondering if only I had noticed the pass it had come to.

EDIT improved the second sentence to be more like english.
 
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Only if you are Boston OIrish and have never set foot in Ireland
Or if you are not, in fact, Irish and are trying to destabilise the DUP. *

*Why on earth you would want to do this when they are so good at destabilising themselves, I do not know.
 
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Or if you not, in fact, Irish and are trying to destabilise the DUP. *

*Why on earth you would want to do this when they are so good at destabilising themselves, I do not know.

I thought his claim the Gardai go unarmed in a non violent country was rather amusing.

Must have been driving too many Jamesons seeing all these heavily tooled up Guards getting a bit frisky with the local rogues and the armed Troops guarding banks and Post Offices.

FWIW…

Strength of An Garda Síochána : 15,000

Authorised firearms Officers: 3,000

Guns in Garda armouries : 15,000
 
I thought his claim the Gardai go unarmed in a non violent country was rather amusing.

Must have been driving too many Jamesons seeing all these heavily tooled up Guards getting a bit frisky with the local rogues and the armed Troops guarding banks and Post Offices.

FWIW…

Strength of An Garda Síochána : 15,000

Authorised firearms Officers: 3,000

Guns in Garda armouries : 15,000
Thames House usually employ better trolls... :roll:
 
Archbishop McQuaid was family, a cousin of my paternal Grandfather… invoking his name struck sheer fear into anyone who crossed your path in 60's Ireland.
See my Aunt who I was staying with taking me down to the CBS after a beating by Brother Marr after I refused to reply to him in Irish -
"Do you you know who Archbishop McQuaid is?'
"I course I do"
"Do you want me to ring him and tell him what you just did to his cousin?
Sheer terror on his face - he never laid a finger on me again.

No ifs, no buts or maybes; if I'd stayed in Ireland my future was greased well by church connections- I WAS going to Kierans College, I was going to enter the Civil Service, I was going to get a good job, the Church would see to that - but, the downside was the Church would have owned my soul and I'd have had to repay on demand. So you got along to get along - and the Churches power and influence extended ever further

And that how the Church got away with it and ran Ireland as a Papal Colony from the 20's until the 70's - its total dead hand on Irelands soul that meant it really could reach out and touch ANYONE - from Paddy the road sweep, to any TD. They wanted dirty deeds done cheap, a Priest came to see you - they had the dirt of everyone - nothing was ever in writing, all very Mafia.
Go down the Guards Barracks to complain to the Guards Brother Finlan's been messing with the small boys?
Before you even made it home, the Priest was informed of everything you said and the Wheels started grinding - snide comments from the pulpit by the Priest in Mass on Sunday - I'm sorry Micheal, I'm having to let you go, you know how it is when you turned up for work on Monday - and another family packed its bags for England and exile.


You had to live it to believe it. A totally soul crushing existence in a country turned into a de facto religious Ghetto -

The similarity to the Nazis was striking when you looked back

Der Born again nationalist Fuherer - DeValera wasn't born in Ireland either
One approved State Religion - Irelands very own National Socialism
A Gestapo - The Church, with McQuad as Himmler
An SS - the similarity was striking, idiotically pure zealots with absolute power dressed head to foot in black - the Brothers were the Liebstandart SS - The Catholic Churches shock truppen. Failed to notice the Brothers walking up the other side of the road and didn't call across, Good Morning Brothers? They'd cross over and give you a good hard box round the ear to remind you next time.
All media censored, even the TV was on a different frequency and standard to the rest of the world to stop you seeing what the outside world looked like - and the Papers! A copy of the NotW from NI (hard to get and expensive) looked like an origami cut out after the censor had finished with it. Yes, all outside publications were liberally scissored of anything subversive.

The Church was the State, the State was the Church.

Its better now, but you can still get things done if you know the right people to talk to and invoke the right names

When my Mad Mother moved back in 1996, she couldn't get any local OAP benefits as she's not paid any stamps - I flew across and made an appointment for a pleasant talk with the senior chap at the welfare office - after a preamble, my full name rang a bell
Are you be chance any relation of •••••••? (We have the same full name)
Yes, he was my Grandad (He was one of the senior cogs in the Ministry of Works in the 60's)
Ah he was a good man, leave it with me, I'll see what I can do.

A couple of days later, my mother was quite surprised to find her PRSI stamps were all paid, and the nice man handed her all her pension, travel and MEDICARE entitlement cards - its like she'd never left and worked paying full stamps in Ireland all her life.

Life in a totally corrupt country.
I did hear a bit about it from the other side of the coin, in West Cork and Kerry towns if your Da was in a trade union or any of the nationalist or sporting organisations you got more or less left alone by the priests who were as vulnerable to a skelp with a hurley or ten as anyone else.
 

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