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Irish War of Independence centenary

JCC

War Hero
Well back on track I have just read a very good book, written in 2017, and kindly given to me by another site member, which provides intriguing insights into the period prior to, including and immediately after the Tan War. 'Wounds' (Fergal Keane) Well worth a read. The author had close connections to some of those who actually experienced the thing.

Fergal Keane has done more damage to journalism than Gobbels. The man is a walking, talking, gurning disgrace.
 
IiRC there were questions on Barry's loyalty to the cause for a while..seems he was seen as too British army ..saluting the flag etc
He makes no secret of the fact that Republicans were initially very wary of him, he had no record of involvement in nationalist politics or Gaelic affairs, he was the son of an RIC man and an ex-serviceman himself, initially involved in ex-servicemen's associations. It took some effort to persuade them he was on their side, presumably his actions were the best way he could prove himself.
 
Well being catholics and ruled by priests the Irish do God rather well. I don't know why they didn't put him in for saint hood though. You will have to ask the Bishops about that.
You do realise that Dublin has three Prod cathedrals, the myth that Ireland was RC is just that a myth.
 
You do realise that Dublin has three Prod cathedrals, the myth that Ireland was RC is just that a myth.
I've been in St. Patrick's because it's basically a military museum with one wall held up by monuments to the Real Royal Irish Regiment, but until recently I though Christchurch was a Catholic Cathedral. The Prods are always good for a plethora of military memorials.
 
I've been in St. Patrick's because it's basically a military museum with one wall held up by monuments to the Real Royal Irish Regiment, but until recently I though Christchurch was a Catholic Cathedral. The Prods are always good for a plethora of military memorials.

If you look closely the names Learoyd, Mulvaney and Ortheris appear on the rolls of those served
 

JCC

War Hero
How ?
Why ?
Fergal Keane pioneered and led the replacement of “journalism of fact” with the new, emotion-led, reportage where the opinion and sensibilities of the journalist, and all right-thinking people, was presented as “News” rather than as comment. Instead of the Sainted Sandy Gall counting them out and then back in we are offered Fergal’s whining and blubbing; nobody, after viewing a package from FK, can be in any doubt as to whom he considers the “baddies”.

This desire to offer value judgments as “News”, as something that demands you take a moral stance on (based on what?), rather than "News" as presentation of facts, has, within the MSM, contributed to the present problems we are experiencing with the polarization of societies.

It may be understandable considering the commercial pressures the conventional media are under from Social Media but it is not, in my opinion, excusable.

He’s a gurning sh1t.
 
Fergal Keane pioneered and led the replacement of “journalism of fact” with the new, emotion-led, reportage where the opinion and sensibilities of the journalist, and all right-thinking people, was presented as “News” rather than as comment. Instead of the Sainted Sandy Gall counting them out and then back in we are offered Fergal’s whining and blubbing; nobody, after viewing a package from FK, can be in any doubt as to whom he considers the “baddies”.

This desire to offer value judgments as “News”, as something that demands you take a moral stance on (based on what?), rather than "News" as presentation of facts, has, within the MSM, contributed to the present problems we are experiencing with the polarization of societies.

It may be understandable considering the commercial pressures the conventional media are under from Social Media but it is not, in my opinion, excusable.

He’s a gurning sh1t.

Brian Hanrahan reported the counting.
 
Fergal Keane pioneered and led the replacement of “journalism of fact” with the new, emotion-led, reportage where the opinion and sensibilities of the journalist, and all right-thinking people, was presented as “News” rather than as comment. Instead of the Sainted Sandy Gall counting them out and then back in we are offered Fergal’s whining and blubbing; nobody, after viewing a package from FK, can be in any doubt as to whom he considers the “baddies”.

This desire to offer value judgments as “News”, as something that demands you take a moral stance on (based on what?), rather than "News" as presentation of facts, has, within the MSM, contributed to the present problems we are experiencing with the polarization of societies.

It may be understandable considering the commercial pressures the conventional media are under from Social Media but it is not, in my opinion, excusable.

He’s a gurning sh1t.
Having only read his piece 'Wounds' Keane makes no attempt to disguise which side of the road he commenting on, particularly since he provides his overview of Irish history from just before the Rising up to the GFA by referring to the experience and testimonies provided by family members and friends - some of whom participated in events, others who knew some of the key players. I find him as critical of the British actions during the Tan War as much as I would expect to see from any Irishman with enough interest to write about it.

What he also does, I think in a very honest way, is to discuss the impact on peoples lives, something he alludes to throughout the period. In particular, when he speaks of the civil war between the pro and anti treaty factions, he speaks of how people dealt with their experiences by "forgetting" (a common characteristic of both Republican and Army vets of the troubles) or by repeating the known but "necessary fiction of a violent age...told and retold in order to live with the consequence of war." Keane also notes however, that "memory can be a penance" in itself.

He also alludes to the divergent versions of events by quoting a well known Irish saying -
“Bionn dhá insint ar scéak agys dgá keagab déag ar angrán – there are two versions to any story, and twelve versions of every song.”

And concluding that It was Ireland’s tragedy that people who loved the same land could become such bitter enemies. Here he was alluding both to the civil war and to the Troubles.

What I took from his concluding paragraphs was that
The nationalist electorate did not reject Sinn Féin at the closure of the Troubles. Following the GFA, the Northern constitutional Nationalists of the SDLP were side-lined to the benefit of Sinn Féin. [The Southern Nationalists discarded their constitutional claim on the six counties, and the traditionalist Ulster Unionists lost their leadership position to the DUP.] All that remained was for David Trimble and Martin McGuiness – the ‘chuckle brothers’, to lead the charge towards devolved power. Sufficient space was left for minor voices of the ‘left’ the ‘right’ and the ‘centre’, the Dail could relax, the British establishment heaved a sigh of relief. And the “grieving and the traumatized were left to make their own way.” I don't think any of that is historically in correct nor tainted by bias - if it is, its bias toward the truth.

ETA please excuse the lined boxes, they are somehow linked to my own notes, copied here because I am a little knackered.
 
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Fergal Keane pioneered and led the replacement of “journalism of fact” with the new, emotion-led, reportage where the opinion and sensibilities of the journalist, and all right-thinking people, was presented as “News” rather than as comment. Instead of the Sainted Sandy Gall counting them out and then back in we are offered Fergal’s whining and blubbing; nobody, after viewing a package from FK, can be in any doubt as to whom he considers the “baddies”.

This desire to offer value judgments as “News”, as something that demands you take a moral stance on (based on what?), rather than "News" as presentation of facts, has, within the MSM, contributed to the present problems we are experiencing with the polarization of societies.

It may be understandable considering the commercial pressures the conventional media are under from Social Media but it is not, in my opinion, excusable.

He’s a gurning sh1t.

Well, I can only speak from my own experience.

Firstly, he turned up, for nothing, to speak at a fundraising dinner my rugby club put on for a fellow from Limerick who had broken his neck. My own engagement with him, on the evening, was fairly brief, but he seemed a good fellow.

Secondly, he has written an acclaimed book on Kohima. I attended a talk, in the National Army Museum, which he gave on it. He came across well, speaking warmly of the elderly veterans he had interviewed eg Donald Easton. Some of his background will have given him a hard time for favourably representing British soldiers.

Have you read it?
 
I've been in St. Patrick's because it's basically a military museum with one wall held up by monuments to the Real Royal Irish Regiment, but until recently I though Christchurch was a Catholic Cathedral. The Prods are always good for a plethora of military memorials.
I thought St Mary's Pro Cathedral was the RC one.
 
The pro cathedral is off O’Connell Street, to your right as you walk away from the river.

Christchurch is the Anglican (steel rod) one.

Had a nice evening nearby, about a dozen years ago, with the daughter of a Syrian General – her surname was Brady, having separated from her local husband some years earlier.
 
A fair bit off topic but Glasgow Cathedral Church (St Mungo's, St Kentigern's, High Kirk of Glasgow) commonly called Glasgow Cathedral isn't a Cathedral, because Presbyterians don't have bishops and a Cathedral is a church with a Bishop. St Mary's is the Anglican (Episcopalian) one, St Luke's is the Orthodox one, and St Andrews's is the RC one.
 

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