Irish War of Independence centenary

[JCC]

Or perhaps just too many protestants and ex-servicemen in Bandon for Tom Barry's liking. I have long since mislaid my Guerrilla Days in Ireland but doesn't Barry have many's the bitter word to say about that town? Describing Bandon as a hotbed of loyalism and West Britonism (something which to a modern ear seems bizarre), he appears to have had a special dislike for it, in no way linked to his own loyal service and membership of the town's ex-serviceman's association I am sure. If Bandon wasn't the town in question I am sure others will correct me.

I've often wondered if something happened to Barry, some rejection, or slight that so offended him he flipped from being a flag-waving (should I say "fleg"?) Loyalist to an active Republican.

 

[bohs_man]

I've often wondered if something happened to Barry, some rejection, or slight that so offended him he flipped from being a flag-waving (should I say "fleg"?) Loyalist to an active Republican.

See this link:

Historian finds IRA commander Tom Barry tried to join British civil service

Details to published in special Irish Times supplement 1920 - War of Independence

www.irishtimes.com

I know the author personally, very knowledgeable historian.

 

[JCC]

See this link:

Historian finds IRA commander Tom Barry tried to join British civil service

Details to published in special Irish Times supplement 1920 - War of Independence

www.irishtimes.com

I know the author personally, very knowledgeable historian.

That's really interesting - didn't Collins get turned down for something as well.

I've always argued that the PIRA in Newry wasn't beaten by the Army, Navy, Air Force, RUC, UDR, Uncle Tom Cobley et al but by Glen Electric, Norbrook etc.

 

[Joshua Slocum]

That's really interesting - didn't Collins get turned down for something as well.

I've always argued that the PIRA in Newry wasn't beaten by the Army, Navy, Air Force, RUC, UDR, Uncle Tom Cobley et al but by Glen Electric, Norbrook etc.

I think Micheal Collins had worked in London for the Post Office
quite a clever chap by all accounts

 

[irlsgt]

I think Micheal Collins had worked in London for the Post Office
quite a clever chap by all accounts

Correct

 

[Joshua Slocum]

Correct

People often think of him as little more than a rabble rouser, but he was a highly intelligent and cultured man

 

[JCC]

But didn't Collins also apply for some Imperial Civil Service job before(?) the Post Office?

 

[Joshua Slocum]

But didn't Collins also apply for some Imperial Civil Service job before(?) the Post Office?

He spent 9 years in London working in the British Savings bank, in stockbroking and the Civil Service, before coming home and taking part in the Easter rising
( Pete McCarthy, McCarthys bar)
he also quotes an interview with Jack Ryan, a Ninety eight year old IRA Contemporary of Collins
Talking about Captain. A. E. Percival of the black and tans who ordered Micheal Collins house burnt to the ground

Percival was hated in West Cork, He had a particular fondness for taking early morning drives through the countryside in his open topped touring car, taking pot shots at farm workers in the fields who he said " had no stake in the country"

While fleeing from British troops after an abortive arms run , Ryan was confronted in a field , man to man , by the hated Percival.
He describes the scene, " I always carried two guns , hidden with my arms folded, so i could have my fingers on the triggers, ready, So I pulled out both of them, but one of them didnt go off, The firing pin had broken, so I let him have it with my left hand gun and down he went"
Ryan escaped, but Percival , thanks to a chain-mail vest under his tunic , was simply knocked out.
The ninety eight year old ruefully concludes; "I wanted to get that bastard so badly , and its to my eternal regret that I didnt"

 

[Onetap]

I think Micheal Collins had worked in London for the Post Office
quite a clever chap by all accounts

London Years

His Life and Times

www.generalmichaelcollins.com

 

[tiger stacker]

See this link:

Historian finds IRA commander Tom Barry tried to join British civil service

Details to published in special Irish Times supplement 1920 - War of Independence

www.irishtimes.com

I know the author personally, very knowledgeable historian.

He got to see Iraq as a gunner/cpl, why he never went with Allenbys campaign would be interesting.

 

[Kinch]

He spent 9 years in London working in the British Savings bank, in stockbroking and the Civil Service, before coming home and taking part in the Easter rising
( Pete McCarthy, McCarthys bar)
he also quotes an interview with Jack Ryan, a Ninety eight year old IRA Contemporary of Collins
Talking about Captain. A. E. Percival of the black and tans who ordered Micheal Collins house burnt to the ground

Percival was hated in West Cork, He had a particular fondness for taking early morning drives through the countryside in his open topped touring car, taking pot shots at farm workers in the fields who he said " had no stake in the country"

While fleeing from British troops after an abortive arms run , Ryan was confronted in a field , man to man , by the hated Percival.
He describes the scene, " I always carried two guns , hidden with my arms folded, so i could have my fingers on the triggers, ready, So I pulled out both of them, but one of them didnt go off, The firing pin had broken, so I let him have it with my left hand gun and down he went"
Ryan escaped, but Percival , thanks to a chain-mail vest under his tunic , was simply knocked out.
The ninety eight year old ruefully concludes; "I wanted to get that bastard so badly , and its to my eternal regret that I didnt"

Percival wasn't much liked by the British either after as Lt. Gen. A.E. Percival he surrendered Singapore in WW2 - the largest surrender in the history of the British Army. His supporters argued that the Malayan garrison had been underfunded. Attached photo is of Percival as a Major in Ireland in 1921

 

[par avion]

Percival wasn't much liked by the British either after as Lt. Gen. A.E. Percival he surrendered Singapore in WW2 - the largest surrender in the history of the British Army. His supporters argued that the Malayan garrison had been underfunded. Attached photo is of Percival as a Major in Ireland in 1821View attachment 542681

Singapore and Malaya would have fallen even if Bill Slim or Monty had been GOC. But we have had this argument over about ten pages earlier in the thread and ended up with British Carrier strengh in the Pacific. After that we had a gentleman's agreement to try to not divert the thread anymore, although @Mike Barton does his best to forget this sometimes

 

[CutLunchCommando]

....should I say "fleg"?

No. Wrong accent.

 

[Kinch]

Singapore and Malaya would have fallen even if Bill Slim or Monty had been GOC. But we have had this argument over about ten pages earlier in the thread and ended up with British Carrier strengh in the Pacific. After that we had a gentleman's agreement to try to not divert the thread anymore, although @Mike Barton does his best to forget this sometimes

Well back on track I have just read a very good book, written in 2017, and kindly given to me by another site member, which provides intriguing insights into the period prior to, including and immediately after the Tan War. 'Wounds' (Fergal Keane) Well worth a read. The author had close connections to some of those who actually experienced the thing.

 

[Mike Barton]

I've often wondered if something happened to Barry, some rejection, or slight that so offended him he flipped from being a flag-waving (should I say "fleg"?) Loyalist to an active Republican.

There appear to be three events given as possible causes, the first being his rejection by the civil service, the second being the killing of another ex-serviceman by the British Army in Cork at whose funeral he was a pall bearer, and the third being himself getting beaten up by British troops.

Combine these with the rising "national consciousness" that he began to experience while in Mesopotamia, according to his own memoirs, and you can see how an obviously intelligent, ambitious young man, a veteran of the war, stuck in some backwater little town might well be attracted to extreme politics and violent action.

Him and tens of millions of other discharged veterans across Europe at that time.

 

[par avion]

There appear to be three events given as possible causes, the first being his rejection by the civil service, the second being the killing of another ex-serviceman by the British Army in Cork at whose funeral he was a pall bearer, and the third being himself getting beaten up by British troops.

Combine these with the rising "national consciousness" that he began to experience while in Mesopotamia, according to his own memoirs, and you can see how an obviously intelligent, ambitious young man, a veteran of the war, stuck in some backwater little town might well be attracted to extreme politics and violent action.

Him and tens of millions of other discharged veterans across Europe at that time.

Or it could be he just got caught up by the spirit of the times. His memoirs apparently were significantly enhanced.

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

Percival wasn't much liked by the British either after as Lt. Gen. A.E. Percival he surrendered Singapore in WW2 - the largest surrender in the history of the British Army. His supporters argued that the Malayan garrison had been underfunded. Attached photo is of Percival as a Major in Ireland in 1921View attachment 542681

Are Your hands cold? GET THEM OUT OF YOUR POCKETS YOU ******* CHINLESS WONDER...

 

[Kinch]

Are Your hands cold? GET THEM OUT OF YOUR POCKETS YOU ******* CHINLESS WONDER...

I think I would have gone Awol if that handsome barsteward had been in command. He was a major in that photo. How he got to Lt Gen dressed like that I don' know........ Feck, I sound like my granny.

 

[WRWalsh]

Or it could be he just got caught up by the spirit of the times. His memoirs apparently were significantly enhanced.

IiRC there were questions on Barry's loyalty to the cause for a while..seems he was seen as too British army ..saluting the flag etc

 

[WRWalsh]

People often think of him as little more than a rabble rouser, but he was a highly intelligent and cultured man

Collins was a god organiser and a pragmatist but given the nature of the fight no saint.