Irish War of Independence centenary

Tomorrow marks the centenary of the Irish War of Independence, 19 January 1919 and the inauguration of the first Dáil, the lower house of the Parliament of Ireland . The War is widely believed to have begun with an ambush at Soloheadbeg in County Tipperary which widely escalated into a bitter conflict lasting 2 and a half years.

A couple of useful links here:

Irish War of Independence - Wikipedia

A date with destiny: first Dáil and start of the War of Independence

I noticed a commeration is being held at the ambush site today:

Soloheadbeg ambush commemoration in Tipperary

A very interesting period which led to partition in Ireland.
 
Where?
 
It's worth remembering the that the first two RIC Police Officers murdered were both Irish Catholics. A sad state of things which continued on into the subsequent Civil War as well.

This is an outstanding read for the intelligence aspect of the War of Independence

Michael Collins's Intelligence War: The Struggle Between the British and the IRA 1919–1921 by Michael T. Foy

And dispells many myths about the era - in particular it was interesting to read the British adaptation during the war, it was not such a one-sided matter as popular myth would have one believe.
 
Tomorrow marks the centenary of the Irish War of Independence, 19 January 1919 and the inauguration of the first Dáil, the lower house of the Parliament of Ireland . The War is widely believed to have begun with an ambush at Soloheadbeg in County Tipperary which widely escalated into a bitter conflict lasting 2 and a half years.

A couple of useful links here:

Irish War of Independence - Wikipedia

A date with destiny: first Dáil and start of the War of Independence

I noticed a commeration is being held at the ambush site today:

Soloheadbeg ambush commemoration in Tipperary

A very interesting period which led to partition in Ireland.
So the IRA were murdering policemen even back then?
Accepted guerrilla warfare tactics, go for the visible symbols of the oppressor, kill them from a position of absolute safety.
The Malay communists did all of the above, with the exception of strutting as if it had been a daring feat of arms, not an assassination.
These two coppers who were murdered, are they even mentioned on the memorial, or does it say something like "Because of the grave danger of the constables turning around and reaching for their holstered weapons, on hearing the request that they surrender, brave members of the Tipperary Brigade risked powder burns and the very real danger of a broken nail, by shooting them in the back"?

Just asking
 

Auld-Yin

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We should respect the will of the Irish people and give them full independence. Stop the privileges they enjoy now and treat them like the foreigners they want to be. Same treatment as a Frog, Nip, Dago or Septic! :D
 
We should respect the will of the Irish people and give them full independence. Stop the privileges they enjoy now and treat them like the foreigners they want to be. Same treatment as a Frog, Nip, Dago or Septic! :D
Does that include the current leader of the opposition?
 

Auld-Yin

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Does that include the current leader of the opposition?
Maybe he should be treated the same way the Irish treated many of their own countrymen!
 
Auld-Yin, well said!
 
So the IRA were murdering policemen even back then?
Accepted guerrilla warfare tactics, go for the visible symbols of the oppressor, kill them from a position of absolute safety.
The Malay communists did all of the above, with the exception of strutting as if it had been a daring feat of arms, not an assassination.
These two coppers who were murdered, are they even mentioned on the memorial, or does it say something like "Because of the grave danger of the constables turning around and reaching for their holstered weapons, on hearing the request that they surrender, brave members of the Tipperary Brigade risked powder burns and the very real danger of a broken nail, by shooting them in the back"?

Just asking
Well there are contrasting accounts that the Policemen raised their rifles and resisted, but I doubt that personally.

Soloheadbeg ambush commemoration in Tipperary

For all victims it would appear

Another view:

The Soloheadbeg Ambush - 21 January, 1919

The Irish Times are running a series of vids on the war, might be worth a look and there are claims made by a relative of one of the gunmen which goes against Breen's account:

Soloheadbeg ambush: what really happened in January 1919?

Just telling.
 
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We should respect the will of the Irish people and give them full independence. Stop the privileges they enjoy now and treat them like the foreigners they want to be. Same treatment as a Frog, Nip, Dago or Septic! :D
If Nicola gets her way in the future you may be one of those foreigners!
 

Auld-Yin

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If Nicola gets her way in the future you may be one of those foreigners!
No I won't, it will be everyone else who is foreign! :D
 
Well there are contrasting accounts that the Policemen raised their rifles and resisted, but I doubt that personally.

Soloheadbeg ambush commemoration in Tipperary

For all victims it would appear

Another view:

The Soloheadbeg Ambush - 21 January, 1919

The Irish Times are running a series of vids on the war, might be worth a look and there are claims made by a relative of one of the gunmen which goes against Breen's account:

Soloheadbeg ambush: what really happened in January 1919?

Just telling.
It was not aimed as a dig at you, but I should have worded it differently to reflect that.
Apology
 
Nice duds worn in the photo of a man who enjoyed his food, nice car too. Protection money?
Did Dan Breen ever get his hands dirty?
Gerry Adams seems to be cut from the same cloth.
 
Well there are contrasting accounts that the Policemen raised their rifles and resisted, but I doubt that personally.

Robinson seems to have been an honourable man and a patriot, Breen a thug and a glory hunting killer.
You can respect an honourable enemy.
 
Nice duds worn in the photo of a man who enjoyed his food, nice car too. Protection money?
Did Dan Breen ever get his hands dirty?
Gerry Adams seems to be cut from the same cloth.
Gerry was a more successful politician.

Breen seems a strange character, not afraid to fight and had a large bounty on his head placed by the authorities. He was also an admirer of Adolph in later life it seems.

Dan Breen
 
@Andy Farman

The events of the Irish War of Independence and after are a bit of a central peice of our history.

For Brits, the "failure" of colonial policing and Intelligence would become a golden thread running through the much more successful counter-insurgency strategies we rolled out across the rest of the 20th Century.

It is said, for example, that the tie of the Palestine Police was said to be the colours it was due the number of ex-RIC officers who ended up there (it was "black and tan"). The lessons of the centrality of intelligence to policing and counter-insurgency had to be learned and re-learned in each campaign and era; but the experience of the security forces in 1919-21 were a central point of reference (even if, like after many campaigns, the Army wanted to get back to 'proper soldiering').

It's often argued (though I have to be pointed to a refence) that the tactics of Michael Collins were a part inspiration for the SOE; though to be fair, the Empire could have brought in many experts in irregular warfare by that point.

I don't have the refence to hand, but there are accounts of Collins ordering the Dublin Metropolitan Police left alone. Once he had killed those who were a threat (G-Division, the CID including Special Branch), there are accounts he viewed the uniform police as to be left alone. Many of couse would continue on into the post-war An Garda Siochana

I am under no illusions as to his capacity for ruthlessness. The original Bloody Sunday was a massacre of British intellligence officers (the below is argued as to whether it was the "Cairo Gang" targetted or another group of plainclothes British intelligence officers).



This is the difference between the Royal Irish Constabulary (the "gendarmarie" responsible for the rest of Ireland), and certainly the Auxiliary Division of the RIC. They were attacked, in up to company strength, by IRA "Flying Columns".

Ireland sadly had to have some more problems, including the Blue Shirts (the short lived Irish variant of 1930s facsism), and continues to the history we all know today.
 
We should respect the will of the Irish people and give them full independence. Stop the privileges they enjoy now and treat them like the foreigners they want to be. Same treatment as a Frog, Nip, Dago or Septic! :D
Or we could tell them that the 100 year experiment with "independence" has obviously been a failure and that they should rejoin the United Kingdom as soon as is practicable.

Then we can all forget about a bloody backstop.
 

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