Irish Soldiers!

#2
Thanks WB, that has made my day. This is one of the very few benefits of the peace process and superb to see a military tradition being strengthened after years of stagnation. Lets hope more recruits come over from the South due to publicity like this :D
 
#11
manchestercop said:
Ulster soldiers fought for their King and came back to find Ulster was three counties less, gratitude (WWI)
Irish soldiers- 10 Div & 16 Div- fought in the same war and came home to 26 counties where they became aliens almost overnight.
 
#12
Black_Rain said:
manchestercop said:
Ulster soldiers fought for their King and came back to find Ulster was three counties less, gratitude (WWI)
Irish soldiers- 10 Div & 16 Div- fought in the same war and came home to 26 counties where they became aliens almost overnight.
Erm .. didn't they all come home to Ireland?. Partition was post-1919, or have I got it wrong?.
 
#13
whiffler said:
Black_Rain said:
manchestercop said:
Ulster soldiers fought for their King and came back to find Ulster was three counties less, gratitude (WWI)
Irish soldiers- 10 Div & 16 Div- fought in the same war and came home to 26 counties where they became aliens almost overnight.
Erm .. didn't they all come home to Ireland?. Partition was post-1919, or have I got it wrong?.
Yes.

Ireland had 3 Divisions 10th Irish, 16th Irish & 36 Ulster Division. The Irish Divisions were mainly-but not exclusively- Irish Catholic Nationalist soldiers and the Ulster Division wad made up of voluteers from the Protestant/ Unionist community. The big issue at the time was Home Rule, the Irish Divisions volunteered for the war hopeing that they would get home rule from Britain and the Ulster Division fought to prevent home rule from Britain.
 
#14
Black_Rain said:
whiffler said:
Black_Rain said:
manchestercop said:
Ulster soldiers fought for their King and came back to find Ulster was three counties less, gratitude (WWI)
Irish soldiers- 10 Div & 16 Div- fought in the same war and came home to 26 counties where they became aliens almost overnight.
Erm .. didn't they all come home to Ireland?. Partition was post-1919, or have I got it wrong?.
Yes.

Ireland had 3 Divisions 10th Irish, 16th Irish & 36 Ulster Division. The Irish Divisions were mainly-but not exclusively- Irish Catholic Nationalist soldiers and the Ulster Division wad made up of voluteers from the Protestant/ Unionist community. The big issue at the time was Home Rule, the Irish Divisions volunteered for the war hopeing that they would get home rule from Britain and the Ulster Division fought to prevent home rule from Britain.
Ahem. Irish soldiers returned to an Ulster after the WWI which had not been divided, this division did not take place for another 2/3 years.
Again, same reply reference the 10th and 16th Divs, another 2/3 years to go for partition.

The 10th and 16th Divs were made up of men from the South, both Catholic and Protestant, Nationalist and Unionist, from all walks of life. The 36th Div was indeed made up of Protestant Unionist but did not fight to prevent home rule, they and the other two divisions fought to free the Low Countries from the Germans. All three divisions forgot any differences and fought together on the fields of Flanders against a common foe. What happend later was political and dragged these fine divisions into an ever ending war not of their choosing.

Regarding the subject of this thread, good to hear of the parade, a long time comming.
 
#15
A reputation for being tight-arrsed money grabbers...the scots of Ireland...who go by the name "Reilly" (or a variation on that surname) and drive hiace vans...
 
#17
stameen_s said:
A reputation for being tight-arrsed money grabbers...the scots of Ireland...who go by the name "Reilly" (or a variation on that surname) and drive hiace vans...
Yes, the Scottish influence impacted upon Cavan - it was heavily planted during the early 1600s with predominantly Lowland Scots. The land in Cavan is well-known to be amongst the poorest quality agricultural land in Ireland, and this factor - poverty - has earned the people the partly-deserved reputation of being mean.

My father's family have owned land in the county for generations - but it's worth damn all on account of its poor quality. It has been my understanding that Cavan was always regarded as more Orange than other counties around the period 1916-1923 on account of the Plantation; my father was brought to Orange parades on the Twelfth as a child, and there is a prominent Orange Lodge in Cavan Town to this day. There was little enough activity there during the War of Independence (1919-22) nor during the Civil War (1922-23), but like other border counties there was activity during the more recent Troubles. Cavan has been devastated by emmigratioin during the 20th century, and by the fact that like most border counties in the Republic it has never received the investment it requires. It might interest people to know that the Irish Government has estimated that 80% of people born in the state in the period c.1922-62 were forced to emmigrate.

On a point of historical accuracy, the island of Ireland was partitioned in 1920, with the Government of Ireland Act, which established the state of Northern Ireland - this was whilst the War of Independence was going on. Partition was confirmed following the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1922, and ultimately by the conlusion of the Boundary Commission in 1925, where agreement - of sorts - was reached on the border between Northern Ireland and the Free State. It had been initially proposed to grant those areas of the border counties with Unionist or Catholic majorities (e.g. East Donegal and parts of Cavan, Tyrone, Fermanagh...) to either state, but this fell through, and the border remained unchanged.

The phrase 'the life of Reilly' comes from the noted wealth of the one-time ruling family of Cavan - the O'Reilly princes of East Breifne - who minted their own money, and were the last Gaelic Irish aristocratic family to surrender to Cromwell's forces in 1653. As late as the 1870s they still owned some 30,000 acres of land. General Count Reille - a descendant of the main branch of the family which went into exile after the Treaty of Limerick in 1691 - commanded Napoleon's II Corps at Waterloo, elements of which assaulted Hougomont.
 
#18
Great stuff GG. Very interesting. All I know is that the Jocks and the Micks always got on well where ever they served together. Not to mention the Irishmen who served in my particular regiment men of courage and character, without whom we would have been all the poorer.
 
#19
GG - actually the first Planter in Ireland was a farmer from Suffolk called Taylor, and he settled in Ballyhaise, Co Cavan. Today I find that there isn't that much of a Scottish influence in Cavan. Most of the names are either Irish or English in origin. The Orange lodge is still there but they get a coach up North to go walkies on the 12th.

The land isn't that bad, it is used today for mainly cattle, sheep and pigs. Due to the rolling countryside (not good for comms! :wink: ) and amount of lakes (you can fish in one for every day of the year - I kid you not!) arable farming wasn't a good option but in the days of the Plantation they kept trying and dying. Modern farmers realise that and there is no crops except for corn (for fodder).

Emmigration is still a problem with many young 'uns going to the US, England or Australia. That's why half of Cavan is a section 23 area where if you build a house you get the cost back from the revenue over a period of ten years.

The relationship between the Protestants and Catholics in Cavan was always pretty good and there has been alot of inter marrying. St Pats school has always had a good proportion of Protestants, and there is even a Protestant school, the Royal, in Cavan Town.

I have relatives from Cavan who joined the British Army in both wars, the last being an Inneskillen Fusilier, and the brother of my Uncle in Law has just finished serving. As for me, apart from a few close relatives, no-one knows about my past life! 8)
 
#20
Yes, that sounds about right - Cavan, due top its proximity to the Pale, was always more open to outside influences than other areas of Ulster, and was one of the first counties to be 'shired' in the English manner in the late 1500s.

Relations between Catholics and Protestants have generally tended to be good, at least according to my father. I would agree that the Scottish influence has faded, with most names being either Irish or Anglo-Irish. Despite the poor quality of the land, livestock farming does go on - particularly pig farming, which is quite lucrative.

Indeed, the Orange Lodge in Cavan Town did look like is doesn't receive much use, but at least it's still there - I think it would be accurate to say that the position of Orangemen in Cavan today is akin to that of Orangemen in East Donegal.

The 300+ lakes of Cavan are its best selling point in my opinion - certainly, enough foreigners think so, as you cannot move for them at times.

It is pity that the Breffni Boys cannot seem to regain the GAA glory of their forefathers... :(
 

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