Irish (republic) Servicemen in British Army

[Onetap]

Fair point, however, Éamon de Valera, having sent the German ambassador his the condolences for Hitler's death, (The swastika flying at half-mast over Eire's Legation may have been put there by German intelligence officers, not Irish diplomats, but de Valera's condolences had already been reported) pointedly ignored the 70k Eire civilians, even the VC awardees, solely crediting the Irish Defence Forces, for Eires contribution to Hitlers defeat.

I had to Google that, I didn't know what you were referring to.

https://www.historyireland.com/de-valera-hitler-the-visit-of-condolence-may-1945/

The Irish legation was on the ground floor of a building in Lisbon, German intelligence occupied the first floor.

 

[Mr_Fingerz]

I had to Google that, I didn't know what you were referring to.

https://www.historyireland.com/de-valera-hitler-the-visit-of-condolence-may-1945/

The Irish legation was on the ground floor of a building in Lisbon, German intelligence occupied the first floor.

And the Germans were cnuts.

 

[Onetap]

And the Germans were cnuts.

I think the entire world had figured that out by 1945.
Except for Dev.

 

[stacker1]

Putting your ignorant pontificating about Ireland and the Irish on display, chum. You don't have a clue on how they think nor on how they act.
You were a blanket stacker, behind the wire. I went out more times on foot patrol than you had straight stores - and I was a bleep.

Guess your misus is on the blob again, hey, hence the BS post. Never mind. Best check the bin first though for red-brown cotton wool else she could be lying and fceking a bloke at work. That'd be a shame.

My great grandfather was a McGowan, he was IRA before 1921, so you can shove your plastic paddiness up your hoop.

Good deflection though, no one noticed you spouting bullshit about people who deserted their army to join another.

 

[Queensman]

And the Germans were cnuts.

Were?

 

[tiger stacker]

My great grandfather was a McGowan, he was IRA before 1921, so you can shove your plastic paddiness up your hoop.

Good deflection though, no one noticed you spouting bullshit about people who deserted their army to join another.

Take it he was one of those that failed to use contraception aka Rubbers
Out of interest did he fight In the First World War

 

[stacker1]

Take it he was one of those that failed to use contraception aka Rubbers
Out of interest did he fight In the First World War

Not to my knowledge.

 

[CutLunchCommando]

A lot of years ago, Ch4 used to broadcast Ireland's biggest chat show, The Late, Late Show. I believe it was on Saturday night over the water, Ch4 showed it the following Monday. I used to occasionally have a watch of it, and one item caught my interest. Irishmen who fought in foreign wars. There were at least two speakers, one was in Vietnam, the other in WW2 with the Royal Ulster Rifles. The first chap (Vietnam) was quite warmly received, the other chap not so much. He was clearly proud of his service and wore his medals and red beret. The audience were clearly hostile, as was the host, Gaye Byrne.

That will be the Jack Campbell interview perhaps.

 

[Stovepipe]

As was outgoing mail …. And that wasn’t just to do with deserters etc. It was to mitigate risks of espionage in both Ireland and UK.

While it was called “The Emergency” here it could have turned to an invasion of Ireland by either axis or allied forces very quickly, no one was allowed leave the Irish army except on probably health or age grounds, many of those who (voluntarily) joined the Irish Army were taken on as the Irish equivalent of Durationists (their Army Numbers started with E)

Many of those deserters went to work in factories etc in the U.K. not just join the army.

You are absolutely correct they mainly did so for economic reasons.

Should they have deserted? No
Was what happened to those who returned right? No (but it was legal as it was an Act of Oireachtas)

What do I think should have happened? The existing Legislation should have been used!

The punishment for desertion in the legislation at the time was up to “penal servitude” (didn’t say for how long) or if it was on “active service” (basically if we had been invaded) was up to the death penalty


In fairness, you failed to mention that U.K. was also very dependant on Irish agricultural exports.

The problem for the arrested deserters was that punishment was "off the books"; it wasn't just ostensible jailing, ie, do the crime, do the time. The prisoners were abused and denied access to what was available to ordinary prisoners, ie, access to legal advice/ recreation time/postal services and so on. Food and clothing were tampered with or withheld and beatings were part of the routine. Families were denied information and access, until they learned to make a fuss. Officially, such ill treatment was denied until, like with the Nuns and the Brothers, injured persons began to appear in hospitals and word got out. The reason I know about this was because I once illustrated a privately published memoir of one of those deserters and I read his stories. People who had deserted and stayed in the South were given lighter treatment or simply struck off the books after 1945.

 

[Kinch]

And the men of the 36th Division were fighting in the hope that the 1914 Home Rule Bill would not be resuscitated.

And the 16th Irish Division were fighting because they were told by John Redmond that the Home Rule Bill would be implemented.

The16th Irish division of suffered 27,000 casualties
The 36th Ulster Division suffered 32,000 casualties
It wasn't a competition, they fought together and the Irish soldiers were the only units on the British side that achieved their objectives on the first day of the Somme.

As for Home Rule, even after Sinn Fein won almost 80% of the Irish seats in the 1918 general election, Home Rule was no closer. The effect was the Irish War of Independence and its outcome, forced upon the representatives of Ireland, set the conditions for the subsequent civil war between pro and anti-treaty sides. This never yet resolved issue proved to be the basis from which PIRA gained its support base in 1970 and the rest, as they say, is history.

Honour the dead.................all of them.

 

[Bodenplatte]

And the 16th Irish Division were fighting because they were told by John Redmond that the Home Rule Bill would be implemented.

The16th Irish division of suffered 27,000 casualties
The 36th Ulster Division suffered 32,000 casualties
It wasn't a competition, they fought together and the Irish soldiers were the only units on the British side that achieved their objectives on the first day of the Somme.

Objectives on the southern flank of the 1 July attack around Montauban and Mametz were achieved by the 7th, 18th and 30th Divs.

 

[Kinch]

Objectives on the southern flank of the 1 July attack around Montauban and Mametz were achieved by the 7th, 18th and 30th Divs.

Bay all accounts you are correct, however the only thing found alive at Montauban after the artillery assault was a fox (in one account). What was regarded as exceptional about that particular battle was the lack of a result because the troops could have outflanked the German armies to the north, but their commander chose to play safe.
The 36th Div achieved their objectives but had to withdraw because of the collapse French troops on their flank.

I dare say there is a lot to learn, certainly by me, about WWI, but my point above was to reiterate a long held belief that amongst comrades in arms during WW1 I would think the 36th Div and 16 Div would have shared a mutual respect.

 

[PlasticCabDriver]

Carrickmacross …. Could you understand her hye?

She had a rather soft, and very lovely, accent.

 

[Bodenplatte]

Bay all accounts you are correct, however the only thing found alive at Montauban after the artillery assault was a fox (in one account). What was regarded as exceptional about that particular battle was the lack of a result because the troops could have outflanked the German armies to the north, but their commander chose to play safe.
The 36th Div achieved their objectives but had to withdraw because of the collapse French troops on their flank.

I dare say there is a lot to learn, certainly by me, about WWI, but my point above was to reiterate a long held belief that amongst comrades in arms during WW1 I would think the 36th Div and 16 Div would have shared a mutual respect.

I hesitate to keep correcting you - I hope you will accept my comments in the spirit in which they are intended . . . . . the 36th Ulster Div were not flanked by French troops on either flank.
The All Regular 29th was on the left of the 36th, and the 32nd New Army was on their right.

The only British Division to have French on a flank (on 1 July) was the 30th, in the south. The northern flank of 4th Army was in contact with 3rd Army, some elements of which provided the diversionary attacks on Gommecourt.

 

[irlsgt]

The problem for the arrested deserters was that punishment was "off the books"; it wasn't just ostensible jailing, ie, do the crime, do the time. The prisoners were abused and denied access to what was available to ordinary prisoners, ie, access to legal advice/ recreation time/postal services and so on. Food and clothing were tampered with or withheld and beatings were part of the routine. Families were denied information and access, until they learned to make a fuss. Officially, such ill treatment was denied until, like with the Nuns and the Brothers, injured persons began to appear in hospitals and word got out. The reason I know about this was because I once illustrated a privately published memoir of one of those deserters and I read his stories. People who had deserted and stayed in the South were given lighter treatment or simply struck off the books after 1945.

What arrested deserters / prisoners?

There weren’t any, at least not in great numbers

This is the legislation that the deserters received a subsequent “pardon” from

Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1946, Section 13

The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.

www.irishstatutebook.ie

 

[wasteofrations2]

That will be the Jack Campbell interview perhaps.

No, not him. The man in question was wearing his red beret.

 

[Nimbus]

If you are talking about WW2? Yes, I believe all who served in HM Forces were stigmatised.

My father joined the 5th Skins at the end of WWII before transferring to the RAF, never lost his Dublin accent and known as ‘Paddy’ throughout his career. He was never stigmatised, though his father, who served in WW1 and Afghan had some difficulty at ‘home’, probably because he was Welsh by birth.

 

[GrumpyWasTooCheerful]

My great grandfather was a McGowan, he was IRA before 1921, so you can shove your plastic paddiness up your hoop.

Good deflection though, no one noticed you spouting bullshit about people who deserted their army to join another.

Fceking plastic twat yourself. You know feck all about the Irish. I grew up here and there.
Get back behind your counter and continue your wanking spastic-chimp impression.

 

[stacker1]

Fceking plastic twat yourself. You know feck all about the Irish. I grew up here and there.
Get back behind your counter and continue your wanking spastic-chimp impression.

What's the matter plastic paddy? Made yourself look like a **** yet again? Why not write some more shite that has nothing to do with people deserting their own army to join another?

 

[GrumpyWasTooCheerful]

What's the matter plastic paddy? Made yourself look like a **** yet again? Why not write some more shite that has nothing to do with people deserting their own army to join another?

Lookong forward to your nomination for this year's SPOTY.
Enjoy.