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Irish Referendum

#1
Only a few days away now. Will we see a repeat of the 'No' vote or have the Irish been shoehorned into voting 'Yes' ?

From a personal perspective I sincerely hope the Irish electorate stick to their guns. It's a bloody disgrace that the 'phile's' demand another vote when they don't get the answer they require. Would it have been put to a re-show if the they had voted yes?
 
#2
BPS666 said:
Only a few days away now. Will we see a repeat of the 'No' vote or have the Irish been shoehorned into voting 'Yes' ?

From a personal perspective I sincerely hope the Irish electorate stick to their guns. It's a bloody disgrace that the 'phile's' demand another vote when they don't get the answer they require. Would it have been put to a re-show if the they had voted yes?
God bless the Irish, hope they stick to their guns over this.
 
#3
There is still some hope.

From The Times:

EU leaders are said to be furious that the Czech Republic is planning to delay signing the Lisbon treaty for up to six months even if the Irish vote "yes" in their referendum next month.

The country might even try to delay it until after the British general election campaign when a Tory victory would see the question put to voters by David Cameron.

Nicolas Sarkozy, who helped to draw up the treaty after the French and Dutch voted against its predecessor, the EU Constitution, has warned Prague that it faces "consequences" if it does not swiftly follow an Irish "yes" with its own ratification.

The outburst followed a private warning from Jan Fischer, the Czech caretaker Prime Minister, to his EU counterparts over dinner at their summit in Brussels last Thursday, it has emerged.

Mr Fischer said that Václav Klaus, the country's unpredictable President, was planning to have a group of loyal senators in the Czech Upper House refer the treaty back to the country's constitutional court for a second time, which could delay ratification for between three and six months.

This would mean that the treaty could still be unratified going into the British general election campaign, expected next April or May. Mr Cameron has pledged that, if the document remained a live issue, even though Britain has completed its own ratification, he would call a referendum on it. This prospect horrifies most EU leaders, given the strong vein of euroscepticism in Britain.

Tensions are already running high among EU leaders over whether the Irish will vote in favour of the treaty on October 2 after a close-run referendum campaign. They are desperate that the momentum of a "yes" is not lost on the eurosceptic Czech and Polish presidents, the final two signatures required for EU ratification.

The treaty further erodes national powers to veto EU decisions, and a Tory government would campaign against it. President Klaus is understood to have told allies that he wants to wait if possible to see if Mr Cameron wins the next election.

Speaking after last Thursday's dinner, Mr Sarkozy said: "I stated clearly that if the Irish say 'yes', there is no question that we will accept to stay in a no-man’s land with a Europe that does not have the institutions to cope with the crisis,” he said.

Asked about what could be done to persuade President Klaus to sign, he added: "It will be necessary to draw the consequences — but those will be the subject of another meeting."

Mr Fischer is acting as caretaker Prime Minister after the Government of Mirek Topolánek fell in the summer and while fresh elections are organised. He has warned privately that he has little control over the country's headstrong President. Speaking to Czech journalists after last week's summit, he admitted: "It is certainly a fact that several government leaders perceive the ratification process in the Czech Republic with a degree of nervousness."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6841622.ece
 
#4
Totally agree. The South voted No in the first referendum and because it was not the answer certain Politicians wanted they decided to have a re-run on on the Lisbon Treaty. Sadly with the decline in the Irish Economy,Political parties are now bullying folk and telling them that a 'No' vote will cost jobs. It's a disgrace. I hope that they get another No vote on October 2nd.
 
#5
InVinoVeritas said:
There is still some hope.

From The Times:

EU leaders are said to be furious that the Czech Republic is planning to delay signing the Lisbon treaty for up to six months even if the Irish vote "yes" in their referendum next month.

The country might even try to delay it until after the British general election campaign when a Tory victory would see the question put to voters by David Cameron.

Nicolas Sarkozy, who helped to draw up the treaty after the French and Dutch voted against its predecessor, the EU Constitution, has warned Prague that it faces "consequences" if it does not swiftly follow an Irish "yes" with its own ratification...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6841622.ece
I think it is about time we left. I have nothing against individual states but a Euro superstate repulses me.
 
#6
A truly united Europe! A dream come true!


Did I hear someone in the background muttering something about "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Europa"?
 
#7
StickyEnd said:
InVinoVeritas said:
There is still some hope.

From The Times:

EU leaders are said to be furious that the Czech Republic is planning to delay signing the Lisbon treaty for up to six months even if the Irish vote "yes" in their referendum next month.

The country might even try to delay it until after the British general election campaign when a Tory victory would see the question put to voters by David Cameron.

Nicolas Sarkozy, who helped to draw up the treaty after the French and Dutch voted against its predecessor, the EU Constitution, has warned Prague that it faces "consequences" if it does not swiftly follow an Irish "yes" with its own ratification...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6841622.ece
I think it is about time we left. I have nothing against individual states but a Euro superstate repulses me.
A Euro Superstate with Blair as President and The Wicked Witch as first lady repulses all right thinking people.
 
#9
InVinoVeritas said:
StickyEnd said:
InVinoVeritas said:
There is still some hope.

From The Times:

EU leaders are said to be furious that the Czech Republic is planning to delay signing the Lisbon treaty for up to six months even if the Irish vote "yes" in their referendum next month.

The country might even try to delay it until after the British general election campaign when a Tory victory would see the question put to voters by David Cameron.

Nicolas Sarkozy, who helped to draw up the treaty after the French and Dutch voted against its predecessor, the EU Constitution, has warned Prague that it faces "consequences" if it does not swiftly follow an Irish "yes" with its own ratification...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6841622.ece
I think it is about time we left. I have nothing against individual states but a Euro superstate repulses me.

A Euro Superstate with Blair as President
and The Wicked Witch as first lady repulses all right thinking people.
He wouldn't be "European president" though (yes the man repulses me too) but the actual job is president of the commission, he won't be replacing any head of state, not your Queen or my President.....(although if he does get in there, I'll change my mind and advocate a bloody insurrection to get him......too much?)
 
#10
I'm hoping that the Czechs, who suffered from being dominated by the Soviet Union for so long will have the courage to stand up to the EU. Who the f*ck does Nicolas Sarkozy think he is, dictating to democracies about "Consequences".

This tells us everything we need to know about the contempt in which the Euro Political Elite holds the peoples of Europe, as does the refusal to accept the will of The Irish people in the last referendum.

I really hope that the Irish stick to their guns and give another resounding two fingers to the EU.
 
#11
InVinoVeritas said:
I'm hoping that the Czechs, who suffered from being dominated by the Soviet Union for so long will have the courage to stand up to the EU. Who the f*ck does Nicolas Sarkozy think he is, dictating to democracies about "Consequences".

This tells us everything we need to know about the contempt in which the Euro Political Elite holds the peoples of Europe, as does the refusal to accept the will of The Irish people in the last referendum.

I really hope that the Irish stick to their guns and give another resounding two fingers to the EU.
Dictating or stating a fact?...if the LT/constitution (call it what you will) does not come into force, then we revert to the old treaties, under those conditions the number of commissioners will be cut (a big deal to some countries, mine included).....maybe to the Czechs as well, the LT was also partly designed to stop the "two speed" EU forming, one group of more federalist nations and the others on the other rim. The Czechs may end up on that outer rim....just saying.

Plus the LT opens up the option of a country leaving the EU....theres something to look forward to :wink:
 
#12
Killaloe said:
Totally agree. The South voted No in the first referendum and because it was not the answer certain Politicians wanted they decided to have a re-run on on the Lisbon Treaty. Sadly with the decline in the Irish Economy,Political parties are now bullying folk and telling them that a 'No' vote will cost jobs. It's a disgrace. I hope that they get another No vote on October 2nd.

True, me Mam says that's nearly all you hear on the TV or read in the papers these days.
 
#13
Oil_Slick said:
Killaloe said:
Totally agree. The South voted No in the first referendum and because it was not the answer certain Politicians wanted they decided to have a re-run on on the Lisbon Treaty. Sadly with the decline in the Irish Economy,Political parties are now bullying folk and telling them that a 'No' vote will cost jobs. It's a disgrace. I hope that they get another No vote on October 2nd.

True, me Mam says that's nearly all you hear on the TV or read in the papers these days.
Well technically alot of non politicians are saying similar things like various US companies, the Irish/American business council ect

(I personnallly believe they may be over doing it on that front, but there are signs that a NO would be taken as a negative for FDI towards Ireland, especially from the US)
 
#14
It's not in the Irish physce to be pushed bullied ect. They will vote as they see fit however, they have recieved enormous amounts of EU funding along with Spain, Portugal, France etc. Should the EU collapse the countries which have been nett gainers will have benefitted from my taxes whilst my own country has recived a pittance. As unfair as this is the sooner we pull out of europe the better.
 
#16
Peter, why should any country need the EU's blessing or permission to leave? Even one of the Architects of Lisbon (Giselle Stewart I think) has stated that it is a serious danger to democracy, especially the ratchet clauses.

The fact that our own government has refused to abide by their manifesto commitments regarding this issue just illustrates the lack of democratic accountability inherent in the whole project.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#19
InVinoVeritas said:
Peter, why should any country need the EU's blessing or permission to leave? Even one of the Architects of Lisbon (Giselle Stewart I think) has stated that it is a serious danger to democracy, especially the ratchet clauses.

The fact that our own government has refused to abide by their manifesto commitments regarding this issue just illustrates the lack of democratic accountability inherent in the whole project.
Well as they are part of the Eurozone I would have thought that was fairly obvious.....
 
#20
InVinoVeritas said:
Peter, why should any country need the EU's blessing or permission to leave? Even one of the Architects of Lisbon (Giselle Stewart I think) has stated that it is a serious danger to democracy, especially the ratchet clauses.

The fact that our own government has refused to abide by their manifesto commitments regarding this issue just illustrates the lack of democratic accountability inherent in the whole project.
I think Gisela Stuart has done herself proud by coming out with her statement. Linky

This lask of democracy is going to get worse. When people like Mandybum come out with statements of "post democracy" I hear "dictatorship". And who wants to live in a dictatorship where you have no power to throw out who is in charge of you every 4 or 5 years if they prove to be a bunch of tw4ts?.

Paddies, please vote <NO>
 

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