Irish Politics

Auld-Yin

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#1
Ain't Irish Politics strange? We now have the hugely Roman Catholic south voting 2:1 to allow abortions whereas the Protestant Ulster are now fighting to retain the strict abortion laws currently in place.

I find it highly amusing, if not hypocritical, for Sinn Fein to be celebrating this as a victory having hidden behind the Catholic Church for decades!

Yep, politics over the Irish Sea seem to be somewhat upside down at present! :eek:
 
#3
I blame Brexit.

Couldn't resist.
 
#4
The D.U.P. need to get their fecking act together. How the foxtrot are we behind the curve of a third-world banana republic (with no bananas) ?

And that's not just me ranting: I've been in touch with our D.U.P. M.P. for East Antrim, Sammy Wilson on this matter. To be fair, he's very responsive to communication. I vote for him because the Union comes first, but they need to get into the 21st century.

I like Arlene Foster as well, she's a decent spud who means well. Her Dad was RUC and her grandfather was a soldier. However, the D.U.P. needs to get real. All the oul culchies who don't like gay people are dying off. They need to appeal to a younger voter base on a more broad viewpoint. If they don't, and they fucked up the last election, Sinn Fein-IRA-Alliance Party are gonna get the first minister post.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
The way things have been going in the South is interesting. Outward looking, progressive moving forwards while we seem to be going backwards in social policy and foreign influence. (I’m back to the Suez era again when it became abundantly clear how little clout we had).

Next, watch the DUP. They might surprise everyone and pull a half hearted attack on any extension of the abortion deal in the North. I doubt if they’ll want to weaken the Conservatives by demanding Tory support for a ‘no change deal’ given the support such a deal would get from the female MPs.

Defeating such a deal as abortion ‘alignment’ as it is across the border and across the water in the UK: may get them into terrible trouble with its female voters. Who still rule the roost at home and just may not come out to vote.

What you might get is the DUP throwing up a few we don’t agree with this flares. Then hiding behind the Free Presbyterians who they’ll wheel out to protest against the deal and in doing so protecting their religious vote without alienating the political vote.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
The D.U.P. need to get their fecking act together. How the foxtrot are we behind the curve of a third-world banana republic (with no bananas) ?

And that's not just me ranting: I've been in touch with our D.U.P. M.P. for East Antrim, Sammy Wilson on this matter. To be fair, he's very responsive to communication. I vote for him because the Union comes first, but they need to get into the 21st century.

I like Arlene Foster as well, she's a decent spud who means well. Her Dad was RUC and her grandfather was a soldier. However, the D.U.P. needs to get real. All the oul culchies who don't like gay people are dying off. They need to appeal to a younger voter base on a more broad viewpoint. If they don't, and they fucked up the last election, Sinn Fein-IRA-Alliance Party are gonna get the first minister post.

I’m afraid the shinners beat them to it. And are seen by the young voters as hip and progressive. The free vote and support for repealing the 8th and same sex marriage has done them a lot of good in urban areas.
I can’t see the DUP pulling that one out with any credibility..
 
#8
I’m afraid the shinners beat them to it. And are seen by the young voters as hip and progressive. The free vote and support for repealing the 8th and same sex marriage has done them a lot of good in urban areas.
I can’t see the DUP pulling that one out with any credibility..
Agreed, but only to a certain point. I'm 45, but I know that Prod "kids" will never vote SF-IRA-Alliance Party. Big Arlene needs a slight shift, some might say a BIG shift, but a move is needed.
 
#10
Ain't Irish Politics strange? We now have the hugely Roman Catholic south voting 2:1 to allow abortions whereas the Protestant Ulster are now fighting to retain the strict abortion laws currently in place.

I find it highly amusing, if not hypocritical, for Sinn Fein to be celebrating this as a victory having hidden behind the Catholic Church for decades!

Yep, politics over the Irish Sea seem to be somewhat upside down at present! :eek:
Not really.

Firstly you are conflating the politics of the Republic of Ireland with Northern Irish politics. There's a huge gulf between the two constituencies.

Secondly Friday's referendum was a societal issue rather than a political or religious one. Politicians from all parties took stances on both sides of the debate. Sinn Féin’s policy was to repeal the Eighth amendment and the legalisation of abortion in cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and where a woman’s mental or physical health is under serious threat by the continuation of the pregnancy. In that context they justifiably celebrated success.

People who voted Yes will have quite happily attended Mass this morning while people who voted No will not have darkened the door of church, mosque or synagogue for years.



The catalyst for the repeal of the 8th Amendment was the death of Savita Halappanavar, an Indian (and I assume Hindu) lady.

Savita Halappanavar: Her tragic death and how she became part of Ireland's abortion debate

Thirdly it amuses me to hear people refer to the Republic of Ireland as "hugely Roman Catholic". I suppose the confusion is caused by people identifying as such in Censuses, and I hold my hand up here as I automatically state my religion as RC. However like the 78% that identified as RC in the 2016 census, I am also part of the 65% who don't practice the religion on a regular basis. In 2016 only 53.7pc of marriages were in a Catholic ceremony. Other religious ceremonies accounted for about 11% while Civil marriages made up 28.5pc (6,438) of the total and there were 1,534 (6.8%) Humanist ceremonies.

The stats indicate that there's a marked decline in Roman Catholicism in the ROI. 50 years ago weekly mass attendance was 91%. The marriage stats may be slightly skewed because same sex couples and Catholic divorcees cannot marry in a church ceremony.

The problems in the Catholic Church are well documented on ARRSE but I'll just say that sexual abuse scandals, Mother and Baby Homes, Magdalene Laundries and so on cut the ground from under the RC church's moral authority on anything. Friday's referendum is just the latest in a series of societal advances in the ROI. It seems unbelievable now that 40 years ago condoms could not be bought in Ireland, divorce wasn't legalised until 1996 and same sex marriage in 2015.
 
#11
It seems unbelievable now that 40 years ago condoms could not be bought in Ireland, divorce wasn't legalised until 1996 and same sex marriage in 2015.
It's also somewhat unbelievable that just 25 years ago I was living in a small town in the mid-west and witnessed a flamboyant chap having stones thrown at him as he walked down the street.
His crime? Suspected of being gay (it turned out that he actually was gay, still it was a bit harsh I thought).

At the same time, I was a social outcast because I had committed the serious crime of becoming separated from my increasingly psychotic ex. Had to wait another few years for the divorce referendum to finalise things, but I still stayed an outcast.

It was as recent as the early nineties that people would occasionally tut at me because they hadn't seen me at mass on Sunday. I'd always reply that it was probably because I wasn't there.


Now look at the place: Divorce, gay marriage, contraception, and now abortion. I'm not necessarily cheering from the rooftops about all these things, but what was quite a backwards society (in comparison to its nearest neighbours) has progressed rapidly in a short space of time.

We even have a gay Taoiseach. Personally I cant stand the man, but that's not because he's gay - it's because I think he's a twat.

Right now the South is looking much more progressive than the North. Due in no small part - as you noted - to the church losing its grip.
 
#12
The D.U.P. need to get their fecking act together. How the foxtrot are we behind the curve of a third-world banana republic (with no bananas) ?.
It's because you live in a third-world banana-monarchy ©. And you keep voting for corrupt, knuckle-dragging, creationist bible thumpers. You'll be grand in a few years when you join the collective in a United Ireland. Personally I look forward to voting for the DUP candidate in Tipperary just for the crack.
 
#13
Where the abortion debate will enter the political sphere will be when the Oireachtas tries to pass the necessary legislation. The referendum didn't actually legalise abortion, it simply authorised the government to change the relevant bit of the constitution that gave equal right to life of fetus and pregnant woman.

The government proposal is to legislate to allow terminations on demand up to 12 weeks and terminations for medical reasons thereafter where two doctors (one of whom must be an obstetrician) consider there is a serious risk to the life or health of the pregnant woman. Abortions after 12 weeks will also be allowed where there is a fatal foetal abnormality and the child will not survive up to or long after birth.

Getting the proposed legislation through the Oireachtas might not be all that easy as there's a minority government of Fine Gael and a few Independents propped up by a Confidence and Supply agreement with Fianna Fail. An abortion bill in 2013 led to the expulsion of 5 FG TDs and 2 Senators so the government may not be enthusiastic about forcing its current members to vote along party lines.

SF's policy as stated elsewhere isn't to allow abortion on demand under any circumstances. FF members are even more divided. Almost half of them voted against holding the referendum at all.

That should hold us until the Presidential election.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
Agreed, but only to a certain point. I'm 45, but I know that Prod "kids" will never vote SF-IRA-Alliance Party. Big Arlene needs a slight shift, some might say a BIG shift, but a move is needed.
I’m not saying prod kids would or should be expected to vote SF. But a lot of those, disenfranchised, punks, bikers, mixed relationships, o schools and relationships from the perceived other, grammar school. Uni educated, wouldnt vote DUP.


I’m old. I wouldn’t vote DUP. I wouldn’t vote for the shinners either. I’m one of the few in the village who argue with the DUP stalwarts at the primary school when I go to vote.

The DUP dont offer anything to anyone and I wouldn’t give them the skin of my shite. Local councillors didn’t like the way things were going and complained. They were binned. Great councillors, they went independent. The locals voted for them instead.
Stuffed the DUP in a previous loyalist stronghold.

As for Arlene, how can you trust anyone who deserts a party for another one. And I’m including Donaldson too. Sammy Wilson, he’s just lucked into a job where all he has to do is be a ******** and people will vote for him.


A bit like Gerry Adams being demoted to the free state.


Edit Sammy Wilson is the DUP equivalent of Sinn Féin’s Danny Morrison. They only wheel either of them out when they’re attempting to defend the indefensible.
 
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#16
Can this thread last without someone blaming Brexit ?
I blame PMTM for putting the UK in pawn to the DUP.

Didn't work for the Major government in the 1990s ISTR.
 
#17
Arlene might take a different tack on this and invite Donegal to join the six counties as it was the only one not to vote yes in the referendum.
Then it will only be a matter of time before Cavan and Monaghan come back into the fold. Ulster a nation once again!
 
#18
Arlene might take a different tack on this and invite Donegal to join the six counties as it was the only one not to vote yes in the referendum.
Then it will only be a matter of time before Cavan and Monaghan come back into the fold. Ulster a nation once again!
No doubt the 300,000 extra Sinn Fein voters will be welcome come election time. :D
 
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