Irish Headline of the day

Oooh! Serious issue for this thread. It's more complicated than simple tax avoidance. Both Apple and Ireland said that the money isn't owed. The EU commission said it is, so the money is in an escrow account pending the findings of the ECJ. To which Apple has appealed. This could take five years or so.

The dropped lawsuit is the Commission's suit against Ireland. Vestager has been quick to paint this one as a win for the Commission but it isn't yet.
 
Oooh! Serious issue for this thread. It's more complicated than simple tax avoidance. Both Apple and Ireland said that the money isn't owed. The EU commission said it is, so the money is in an escrow account pending the findings of the ECJ. To which Apple has appealed. This could take five years or so.

The dropped lawsuit is the Commission's suit against Ireland. Vestager has been quick to paint this one as a win for the Commission but it isn't yet.
Still loads of money for the Irish? That's ~$3185 per person! Paddy Power anyone?
 
Oooh! Serious issue for this thread. It's more complicated than simple tax avoidance. Both Apple and Ireland said that the money isn't owed. The EU commission said it is, so the money is in an escrow account pending the findings of the ECJ. To which Apple has appealed. This could take five years or so.

The dropped lawsuit is the Commission's suit against Ireland. Vestager has been quick to paint this one as a win for the Commission but it isn't yet.
Ahem, doesn't Ireland have a supreme court?
 
Still loads of money for the Irish? That's ~$3185 per person! Paddy Power anyone?
If the ECJ rules that the money is owed there's a theory that other EU states will claim part of the pot for Apple business activities in their countries. This will set the precedent of a common consolidated tax system in the EU which some people think would mean Ireland losing €4 billion a year in corporation tax.
 
If the ECJ rules that the money is owed there's a theory that other EU states will claim part of the pot for Apple business activities in their countries. This will set the precedent of a common consolidated tax system in the EU which some people think would mean Ireland losing €4 billion a year in corporation tax.
I don't think they can, that would imply that the EU has control over their own taxation systems and that is a Sovereign issue. Moreover the central pot is allocated subject to the seven year budget. That budget is set from the membership fees, derived from the CU. If they already in receipt of their allocation from the EU that's it. No this is a paddy between the EU and Ireland. Apple taxation between countries is a national matter AIUI, HOWEVER, it is France's contention that the EU should have control over all the Eurozone in terms of finances. That is being faught with some predjudice in some quarters because it actuall means the end of the independent nations. I wouldn't hold your breath. But if the Irish Government were to use the Supreme court and lock horns with the ECJ............... But I don't think Veradka would have the balls considering he is hoping the EU will unite Ireland, vassal state here we come-but at least it wont be the English oppressors
 
I don't think they can, that would imply that the EU has control over their own taxation systems and that is a Sovereign issue. Moreover the central pot is allocated subject to the seven year budget. That budget is set from the membership fees, derived from the CU. If they already in receipt of their allocation from the EU that's it. No this is a paddy between the EU and Ireland. Apple taxation between countries is a national matter AIUI, HOWEVER, it is France's contention that the EU should have control over all the Eurozone in terms of finances. That is being faught with some predjudice in some quarters because it actuall means the end of the independent nations. I wouldn't hold your breath. But if the Irish Government were to use the Supreme court and lock horns with the ECJ............... But I don't think Veradka would have the balls considering he is hoping the EU will unite Ireland, vassal state here we come-but at least it wont be the English oppressors
But this is the direction of travel for the EU as it slowly subsumes individual country responsibilities towards itself, becoming the sovereign entity incrementally.

For many who understood this, that was the primary reason they voted Leave. It was also the counterpoint they used in the discussion (argument?) about whether or not those who voted Remain fully understood what the ultimate intention of the EU was becoming.
 
I don't think they can, that would imply that the EU has control over their own taxation systems and that is a Sovereign issue.
As I said, some people believe that the EU is moving towards tax harmonisation. And you've actually said it yourself in your post.

HOWEVER, it is France's contention that the EU should have control over all the Eurozone in terms of finances.
Tax harmonisation may or may not be a bad idea. And it's an inevitable consequence or indeed a requirement of a common currency.

Moreover the central pot is allocated subject to the seven year budget. That budget is set from the membership fees, derived from the CU. If they already in receipt of their allocation from the EU that's it.
I take it that the taxes that will be collected centrally by the Commission will replace fees, wholly or in part.

...No this is a paddy between the EU and Ireland. Apple taxation between countries is a national matter AIUI,
Well it was an issue between Ireland and the EU. The case has now been dropped since Apple has lodged the money in an escrow account. The Commission's gripe is that Ireland granted Apple unfair tax-breaks, contravening EU law. To be honest I think the Commission may have a point although Apple's dealings with Ireland go back a long way I think. From Wikipedia...

The issue was Apple's variation of the double Irish tax system, which, from 2004-2014, Apple used to shield circa €110.8 billion[6][11] of non-US profits from tax.[12] Apple did not use the standard two separate Irish companies, as Google and other Irish-based U.S. multinationals employ with their double Irish tax systems, but instead received two rulings from the Irish Revenue (in 1991, and again updated in 2007), that it could use a single Irish company, split into two branches. These were private rulings to Apple, not given to other Irish-based U.S. multinationals, and thus charged as illegal Irish State aid by the EU Commission.[3]
.That is being faught with some predjudice in some quarters because it actuall means the end of the independent nations.
Not the end of the world for the poorer nations. One of my wife's nephews married a bird from Estonia a few months back and the family came back from the wedding aghast at the poverty of the place. And it's not as if Ireland is all that well off although compared to eastern Europe we have it easy. I've said it before, and I'm paraphrasing David McWilliams here, Ireland without the EU would be western Europe's Albania. I'm in my mid-50s and when I was a kid I watched my father ploughing a field with a horse-drawn plough. A donkey and cart was a common way to transport timber for the fire. Our house had no running water and my first daily chore at the age of 8 was to take a milk churn on a wheelbarrow to a well about 400 m from our gaff and draw water for the household. So you can see why some of us are attached to the EU and would willingly sacrifice a little independence for a bit of prosperity.

I wouldn't hold your breath. But if the Irish Government were to use the Supreme court and lock horns with the ECJ...............
That's not the function of the Supreme court. Organisations and countries who have problems with a decision of the European Commission appeal to the ECJ. Apple are taking such a case which means that Ireland doesn't have to.

But I don't think Veradka would have the balls considering he is hoping the EU will unite Ireland,
The EU won't unite Ireland, only the people of Ireland can do that.

...vassal state here we come-but at least it wont be the English oppressors
True
 
One of my wife's nephews married a bird from Estonia a few months back and the family came back from the wedding aghast at the poverty of the place.
I've read this several times and I'm still not sure which family was aghast.
 
Surprised this hasn’t been picked up yet.
Auld fella was not impressed with local scobes interrupting his flutter.
They show up with a gun and hammers. Yer man had all the NAILS. Last bit is a glorious homage to Father Ted.

 

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Surprised this hasn’t been picked up yet.
Auld fella was not impressed with local scobes interrupting his flutter.
They show up with a gun and hammers. Yer man had all the NAILS. Last bit is a glorious homage to Father Ted.

Those guys will be praying they are not caught as they will be laughed out of prison!
 
As I said, some people believe that the EU is moving towards tax harmonisation. And you've actually said it yourself in your post.













Well it was an issue between Ireland and the EU. The case has now been dropped since Apple has lodged the money in an escrow account. The Commission's gripe is that Ireland granted Apple unfair tax-breaks, contravening EU law. To be honest I think the Commission may have a point although Apple's dealings with Ireland go back a long way I think. From Wikipedia...





Not the end of the world for the poorer nations. One of my wife's nephews married a bird from Estonia a few months back and the family came back from the wedding aghast at the poverty of the place. And it's not as if Ireland is all that well off although compared to eastern Europe we have it easy. I've said it before, and I'm paraphrasing David McWilliams here, Ireland without the EU would be western Europe's Albania. I'm in my mid-50s and when I was a kid I watched my father ploughing a field with a horse-drawn plough. A donkey and cart was a common way to transport timber for the fire. Our house had no running water and my first daily chore at the age of 8 was to take a milk churn on a wheelbarrow to a well about 400 m from our gaff and draw water for the household. So you can see why some of us are attached to the EU and would willingly sacrifice a little independence for a bit of prosperity.



That's not the function of the Supreme court. Organisations and countries who have problems with a decision of the European Commission appeal to the ECJ. Apple are taking such a case which means that Ireland doesn't have to.



The EU won't unite Ireland, only the people of Ireland can do that.



True

Thanks for that. At least we don't descend to ad homs.
My Bold, but that's why it's so important to the EU and misunderstood by the National assemblies. The concept that they will be told what their budgets are, will effectively emasculate their governments. Their Taxes will be collected centrally, there will be no need for central banks. What is left for national Governments to do other than to act as regional councils with limited powers. That will apply to Ireland. I have never agreed with that concept.


My Italics, No it can't be guaranteed that there will be a substitution and if you were the EU would you actually do that?Don't forget the EP rubber stamps the commission.

At the Moment AIUI the gripe with the multis is the fact that they are positioning themselves for tax advantage-which I do not believe is banned by EU law and there is no standard tax rate for corporation tax across the EU otherwise, there would be no point in positioning

Lastly the bit about the Poorer nations is in fact the EU's own fault. It didn't Penalise Russia with reparations when West Germany and the east became united, France and the other three, fixated on Germany rather than the the economic consequences of the collapse of the USSR. No wonder Yeltsin was so good to do business with.

Lastly the only way there can be a single currency is without the Pound. That queers the whole pitch which is why Brown had to make it conditional and why it was so wrong to sign Lisbon.
 
Surprised this hasn’t been picked up yet.
Auld fella was not impressed with local scobes interrupting his flutter.
They show up with a gun and hammers. Yer man had all the NAILS. Last bit is a glorious homage to Father Ted.
I put it in the Youtube video thread.

I love the way he gave the last lad a kick in the árse as he went out the door
 
Thanks for that. At least we don't descend to ad homs.
My Bold, but that's why it's so important to the EU and misunderstood by the National assemblies. The concept that they will be told what their budgets are, will effectively emasculate their governments. Their Taxes will be collected centrally, there will be no need for central banks. What is left for national Governments to do other than to act as regional councils with limited powers. That will apply to Ireland. I have never agreed with that concept.
As the EU moves towards some form of Federation, it's only natural that member states will be handing over power to the centre. We evolve or die. I see the future EU as a form of the USA, with state governments and a federal government in Strasbourg.

There is already a European Central Bank which can take over more of the powers currently exercised by the central banks of individual states.

....
At the Moment AIUI the gripe with the multis is the fact that they are positioning themselves for tax advantage-which I do not believe is banned by EU law and there is no standard tax rate for corporation tax across the EU otherwise, there would be no point in positioning
There is no standard tax rate but perhaps there should be.

The commission's problems with Ireland are not the tax rate but its allegation that Ireland gave an unfair tax advantage to Apple that wasn't offered to other companies. If Ireland had offered the same deal to everyone, the Commission would not have had a leg to stand on.

Lastly the bit about the Poorer nations is in fact the EU's own fault. It didn't Penalise Russia with reparations when West Germany and the east became united, France and the other three, fixated on Germany rather than the the economic consequences of the collapse of the USSR. No wonder Yeltsin was so good to do business with..
I'm not sure why this is relevant. Germany isn't one of the EU's poor nations. Russia was an economic basket case along the lines of sub-Saharan Africa in the late 80s. Demanding reparation that Russia couldn't pay would have been pointless and counter-productive.

Lastly the only way there can be a single currency is without the Pound. That queers the whole pitch which is why Brown had to make it conditional and why it was so wrong to sign Lisbon.
There is already a single currency. Only Denmark and the UK stayed out of the Eurozone. And the UK is leaving the EU now anyway.
 

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