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Ireland - Saviours of Europe?

#1
Taken from The Irish Times, 05/06/2008, 21:02

Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll

STEPHEN COLLINS, Political Editor

THE LISBON Treaty could face a shock rejection with the No side now in the lead, according to the findings of the latest Irish Times /TNS mrbi poll.

It will take an unprecedented swing in the last week of the campaign for the treaty to be carried.

The poll shows the number of people intending to vote No has almost doubled to 35 per cent (up 17 points) since the last poll three weeks ago, while the number of the Yes side has declined to 30 per cent (down 5 points).

The number of undecided voters is still a significant 28 per cent (down 12 points) while 7 per cent won't vote.

The massive increase by the No vote since the last poll has mainly come through gains among undecided voters but, even more ominously for the Yes side, it has lost some support to the No camp.

While the final outcome is still in the hands of undecided voters, the clear momentum is now with the No campaign and it will take a dramatic shift in public attitudes over the next few days for the Yes side to win.

The swing to the No camp has not been prompted by domestic considerations, with just 5 per cent of those opposed to the treaty saying they are influenced by a desire to protest against the Government.

The reason most often cited by No voters is that they don't know what they are voting for or they don't understand the treaty - with 30 per cent of No voters listing this as the main reason for their decision.

The poll was conducted last Tuesday and Wednesday among a representative sample of 1,000 voters in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all 43 constituencies.

It was taken in the middle of the controversy over the World Trade Organisation talks.

That issue came to a head on Tuesday afternoon with the announcement by the Irish Farmers Association that it would support a Yes vote following the declaration by the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, that he would use the veto to block any deal unacceptable to Ireland if the issue was put to a vote.

The poll showed that farmers are opposed to the treaty by 34 per cent to 31 per cent. The No majority among working-class C2DE voters is much bigger, with Labour voters shifting in large numbers from the Yes side.

It indicates that opposition to the treaty expressed by some trade unionists is having an impact.

In class terms, the Yes campaign is only ahead among better-off ABC1 voters.

Fianna Fáil voters continue to back the treaty but even in that category the No campaign has made massive strides in the past three weeks with a gain of 15 points to 25 per cent, while the proportion of Yes voters has fallen by five points to 42 per cent.

A clear majority of Fine Gael voters are now against the treaty - by 40 per cent to 30 per cent.

Among Labour voters there has been a massive turnaround with the No side almost doubling its support to 47 per cent with 30 per cent of party supporters in favour.

Ironically, given the party's previous stance on the EU, strong support for the treaty comes from Green Party supporters.

Sinn Féin voters are overwhelming in the No side, in line with their party's position.

The poll reveals the persistence of a significant difference in the attitudes of men and women to the treaty with women less likely to be in favour, although the biggest proportion of women are still in the undecided camp.

Across the age groups, older people are more positively disposed towards voting Yes but only among the over-50s was there a majority for the treaty. The highest proportion of No voters came from the 35 to 49 age group.

In regional terms the No lead is biggest in Munster, it was narrow in Dublin and the two sides are evenly matched in the rest of Leinster and Connacht-Ulster.

When asked for the main reasons why they had decided to vote No, not knowing what the treaty was about came first, followed by a wish to keep Ireland's power and identity.

The preservation of neutrality came next.

Those voting Yes cited keeping Ireland closely involved in the EU as their top reason followed by enabling the EU to work more effectively. Concerns about the country's economic future came next.
So it looks like the No vote is starting to pick up momentum. Guess it all comes down to the 28% still undecided and which way they jump. Come on undecideds, you know you want to do the right thing and ram a stake through the Constitution's heart by voting No! :)
 
#2
It's just as well that the Irish Constitution demands a referendum on issues such as this. I doubt if there would be one otherwise. The Irish government would be happy to sleepwalk into federalism along with Brown and his shower of shite and every other EU government. Let's hope the No campaign continues to gain momentum.
 
#3
It's just as well that the Irish Constitution demands a referendum on issues such as this. I doubt if there would be one otherwise. The Irish government would be happy to sleepwalk into federalism along with Brown and his campaign continues to gain momentum.
 
J

jimuk80

Guest
#4
It comes to something when were putting our hopes on how another nation votes to save our own skin.

Fcuking Broon dictator cnut!

:)
 
#5
jimuk80 said:
It comes to something when were putting our hopes on how another nation votes to save our own skin.

Fcuking Broon dictator cnut!

:)
By rights, this should've been the subject of a referendum in the UK too, Jimuk. It was only because Brown the Clown bottled it again that it wasn't.

This has created massive interest at home (Ireland) and folks're going to great lengths to gather information for themselves. If the present trend continues, the vote will be an overwhelming "NO". I'd like to see the Taoiseach veto it then. Jaisus! he's proving to be worse than that corrupt fücker Ahern!

MsG
 
#6
If they vote No and begads I hope they do, you can bet your life the constitution will be amended, the treaty will be 're-negotiated' and re-packaged, it will be signed for by the money grubbers and only then will the constitutional amendment show that a referendum need not be held at all.

They will keep doing this until they get the answer that they want, its how EU politics works.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#7
Bugsy said:
jimuk80 said:
It comes to something when were putting our hopes on how another nation votes to save our own skin.

Fcuking Broon dictator cnut!

:)
By rights, this should've been the subject of a referendum in the UK too, Jimuk. It was only because Brown the Clown bottled it again that it wasn't.

This has created massive interest at home (Ireland) and folks're going to great lengths to gather information for themselves. If the present trend continues, the vote will be an overwhelming "NO". I'd like to see the Taoiseach veto it then. Jaisus! he's proving to be worse than that corrupt fücker Ahern!

MsG
By that I take it you mean that great statesman who somehow needed assistance lubing the wheels along the way?
 
#8
Sinn Fein are campaigning for a no vote

This puts me in a dilemma because on the one hand the fact that Giscard D'Estaing has let it slip that they're trying to pull a fast one on us inclines me to vote no but on the other hand I don't want to be on the same side as Sinn Fein which pushes me into the yes camp.
:?

"Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly ... All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way ... What was [ already] difficult to understand will become utterly incomprehensible, but the substance has been retained."
http://www.tallrite.com/IrishTimesColumns/IT-DontSignLisbon.htm
 
#9
If the good people of Ireland vote 'No', like the citizens of Holland and France, then the unelected and unaccountable commissars of the European Soviet Union will simply ignore them and change the rules. Where do think Mugabe learned his cheating?
 
#10
Hopefully we shall all be thanking the Irish for their rejection of this obscene treaty.

Don't expect they'll win many votes from the boxheads in the next Eurovision farce as a consequence, but who cares?
 
#12
lsquared said:
If the good people of Ireland vote 'No', like the citizens of Holland and France, then the unelected and unaccountable commissars of the European Soviet Union will simply ignore them and change the rules. Where do think Mugabe learned his cheating?
That's Sir Robert Mugabe to you, since Broon refuses to rescind his knighthood. The "symbols" aren't important in signifying our opinion of the "good" Doctor, apparently.
 
#13
Interesting to see people on here side with Sinn Fein and other loonies in looking for a No vote in the Referendum here in Ireland next week. Most of the mainstream media, political partys, most trade unions, farming, business and employment associations are advocating a Yes vote. Prominent commentators such as Garret Fitzgerald (former Taoisaech) are also advocating a Yes vote. I know the advice that I will listen to!
 
#14
jimuk80 said:
It comes to something when were putting our hopes on how another nation votes to save our own skin.

Fcuking Broon dictator cnut!

:)
Indeed. God bless the Irish!
 
#16
jagman said:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1318932,00.html

With any justice at all the Irish referendum will kill the Lisbon Treaty stone dead. I'm sure the collective EU lunatics will try to re-invent it under another name (again)
Awaiting the results with baited breath, it comes to something when the only hope we have of retaining our Sovereignty lies with a referendum in another country.
It looks like a no vote.
Odd when you think how well the ROI has done out of Europe.
Apparently this leaves the Lisbon treaty dead in the water,end of.
 
#18
Mr_Deputy said:
Irish looking out for themselves on this which is fair.
Bear in mind they have received 60 billion from the EU over the last few years to bring up their infrastructure etc.
And they stil don't like the idea of the treaty!
Inspires a little hope that all may not be lost, I am more than a little diturbed that we have had to rely on the Irish to save us from this Treaty/Constitution.
 
#20
Last time this happened a British EU Official was interviewed for his reaction and said " They obviously did not know how to answer the question correctly."

When asked what the way forward was he replied " We will keep asking until they get the answer right"
 

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