Iraqi resistance fighters

[Filbert Fox]

why is it that during the German occupation of France in world war 2 that the French resistance fighters were deemed heroes for their trying to oust the invading forces, yet the Iraqi resistance fighters are 'cowards', 'criminals', 'terrorists' and desperate men' for doing the same against the invading and now occupying US forces?
Double standards or is there actually a difference?
if the UK was to be invaded would we just lie down and let the enemy crack on (as is expected in Iraq) or would we regroup and fight on to try and liberate ourselves?

 

[ex-dvr]

why is it that during the German occupation of France in world war 2 that the French resistance fighters were deemed heroes for their trying to oust the invading forces, yet the Iraqi resistance fighters are 'cowards', 'criminals', 'terrorists' and desperate men' for doing the same against the invading and now occupying US forces?
Double standards or is there actually a difference?

About the only difference I can see is that at the moment the Iraq's don't care who else is caught up in it all i.e redcross, their own countrymen, or whoever.

 

[CombatBooBah]

the iraqi resistance are fighting to reinstate a muderous tyranny or bringing in a taliban like regimne which nobody wants to live under.

 

[error_unknown]

Excellent question Theatreman.
Of course the decision as to whether these men are terrorists or freedom fighters will depend on which side you're on; as ever!
Do remember that it runs very deeply in the mindset of many millions that America is 'The Great Satan'.
To have imagined there would not be significant resistance to this occupation would be naive.
I understand that the coalition forces have made many Iraqi soldiers redundant and are not using them in the new Iraqi Army.
These proud soldiers have been stripped of their work and their livelihoods and are expected to queue for daily handouts...hardly a surprise if some take to forming themselves into resistance groups is it?

 

[ex-dvr]

Blondebint said

These proud soldiers have been stripped of their work and their livelihoods and are expected to queue for daily handouts...hardly a surprise if some take to forming themselves into resistance groups is it?

Is that the same ones who surrendered, without fighting or who changed into civvy clothes and mixed with the rest of the population?

To me they cant be described as "proud soldiers"

 

[VOSS-LOG-LAYER]

True.
Look how most yanks saw the IRA, A romantic brave mick in green being chased though lands by the dastardly thug red coats.
After 9/11 there attitude towards them and funding changed

 

[happysapper]

Could the difference not lie in what the majority of iraqi citizens want? I agree that Iraqis would welcome the chance to be free and govern themselves, however they (the majority) are keen for the coalition forces to rebuild their country, after the years of systematic neglect it received at the hands of saddam.

 

[El_Pato]

Distillation of all this is that you have to look at the cause for which your "freedom fighter/terrorist" is fighting.

Were Khmer Rouge or Sandinistas freedom fighters, just because they were fighting central government? I suggest no.

As has been said above the Iraqis and their allies who are blowing themselves/any soft target up are fighting for Tyranny be it Baathist or Religious.

Whatever the shortcomings of the troops in theatre the end state they are trying to achieve is infinitely preferable to that offered by the alternatives.

 

[scaryspice]

Theatreman

FYI, your question has now been asked on GIJargon. There's a rather confused discussion going on at the moment, but when the rest of the septics get out of bed it should be lots of fun!

Anyone who isn't banned might like to pop over and see.....

 

[CombatBooBah]

the sandinista's won getting rid of a vicious Tyranny plus they defeated the frankly evil contras. Now the khmer rouge were real Bastards and maggie sent the gun club to train them must have been the vitamin injections

 

[Filbert Fox]

the iraqi resistance are fighting to reinstate a muderous tyranny or bringing in a taliban like regimne which nobody wants to live under.

except the iraqi resistance who obviously have a lot of support, how else can you fire 29 RPGs at a hotel that is being used as a US military barracks and get away? as in NI they must have the backing of a lot of the local population

 

[Filbert Fox]

Is that the same ones who surrendered, without fighting or who changed into civvy clothes and mixed with the rest of the population?
To me they cant be described as "proud soldiers"

so once again i ask you, if the uk were to be invaded, isnt this exactly what our forces would do? (except the surrender bit, but then again in the present climate with the type of individual being recruited, who knows?)
do we not have plain clothed soldiers on the streets of NI? mixing with the rest of the population? tell me that they are not proud soldiers.

 

[CombatBooBah]

you really think there fighting to bring a nice arab regimne power like er name one?

 

[Filbert Fox]

theyre fighting to get rid of the occupying forces, as we would, and remember that it is an arab country invaded by a christian army.
what do we expect them to do? roll over and give up?

 

[error_unknown]

I agree with you Theatreman.
Imagine a bunch of spams roadblocking the end of YOUR road and throwing their weight around. All you serving soldiers are suddenly out of work and forced to queue for handouts so you can feed your family,
while the spams recruit civvys and pay them and train them to do YOUR soldiering! Oh and this is the 'great satan' not allies.
What will you do? resist or collaborate?

 

[Filbert Fox]

As has been said above the Iraqis and their allies who are blowing themselves/any soft target up

dont really call heavliy armed and trigger happy yanks soft targets do you?
and you cant say they are only hitting soft targets, 115 dead and 1600 wounded US soldiers and the lord only knows how many vehicles prove theyre not scared to take on the big boys.

obviously its playing the devils advocate here but, if you give the aid agencies a kicking so that they leave, it adds pressure to your forces and government, cause massive casualties to the occupying forces it adds pressure to your troops, government, people back home and world opinion. i think the resistance is being very cleverly orchestrated, the body bags are heading to the states and understandably the yanks arent happy.

 

[El_Pato]

In terms of Maoist doctrine it is perfectly good strategy. You are quite right, driving the occupying forces further behind Razor Wire makes eminent sense.

However I don't think they are taking on the aforementioned heavily armed Sceptics head to head. It is a soft target to fire an RPG at a convoy then scoot, allowing the "heavily armed Sceptics" to shoot up any innocent passer by.

I am by no means demeaning the guts required to do that, but insurgency by its nature is either aimed at soft targets or suicidal.

Tet offensiive, now that wasn't aimed at soft targets, but enabled Yanks to roundly thrash the little yellow men.

 

[Filbert Fox]

good points there, and i think your comment at the end about the tet offensive is probably why the iraqis will continue to snipe, booby trap and rpg those weak wingeing yanks.
after 34 years in NI we know what to expect but its all very new to those apple pie eaters.

 

[Escape-from-PPRuNe]

After all, does anyone remember the Iraqi army surrendering? Thought not...

 

[Filbert Fox]

typical yanks, took a pasteing this weekend as well.