Iraqi insurgents using Steyr HS50s exported to Iran

#21
Voyager said:
KGB resident probably sees a missed export opportunity though I thought they had Dragunovs galore in Iraq

http://tinyurl.com/27zaap
Probably the market was lost for other manufacturers. If a hundred sniper-rifles were found then only God knows how many are still in hands of the insurgents.

On a serious note, no doubt that Soviet Union in similar situation would help to 'freedom fighters'. But for modern Russia it is unprofitale business. Btw, Russia proposed to sell weapons to Iraqi government in 2004.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/11/16/iraq.shtml

Moscow is prepared to resume weapons shipments to Iraq upon request, Russia’s defense minister announced Tuesday.
 
#22
More than 100 of the.50 calibre weapons, capable of penetrating body armour, have been discovered by American troops during raids.
Suspiciously round number, I guess the news report was not able to verify how many and so gave a random number.

I don't see what the problem is if Iran sold these weapons to insurgents, they publicly state their dislike for the west so there is nothing to be shocked about.
 
#23
nigegilb said:
Contrary to what the tin hatters are saying here, I don't believe the appetite for war with Iran exists in the States. The US is really struggling just with Afg and Iraq. Still, can't see the Israelis standing by as Tehran goes in search of the ultimate weapon.
Begs the question - does a demonstrably deluded President feel the need for public support, when he:

a) Is in his last 20mths and doesn't need to get re-elected, and if he
b) Thinks "God is on our side"?

I would need little convincing that Dubya is dumb enough to think he can fight a war with Iran and come out of it better than he has in Iraq to date.
 

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#24
whitecity said:
When I see the word Iran, I assume this means the State of Iran. In effect, an accusation that the authorities in Iran are officially conducting a covert operation to arm Iraqi insurgents with weapons, not so?

Do you think the authorities in Iran are so stupid as to buy 800 guns from a reputable western manufacturer one day, and then ship them into Iraq the next day and assume nobody is going to find out? Either they are playing a deliberate high-risk strategy to goad the US/UK into taking military action against them, or they - and we - are being taken for a ride.

Think about it!
I have thought about it - and the facts are clear - the Iranians are gambling that the US will do nothing. They have been supplying weapons and killing British and US Forces for years - we've done nothing so far, so why start now? They are showing to the locals that they are the ones with the b@lls in that area, and that they can kill US and British without any comeback.

The Yanks will not take this for ever - we probably will, sadly.
 
#25
Not sure I agree. I reckon Iran could up the ante further at the risk of retaliation by the US. One thing is for sure, US foreign policy has contributed to a nuclear arms race. Iran reckons that joining the club will make them safe from invasion.

Dangerous waters ahead. The hot heads in the US have a lot to answer for.
 
#26
Random_Task said:
KGB_resident said:
spike7451 said:
Well if the IRA can smuggle X amount of AK's, RPG & Russian MG's into the province,(which is a lot smaller that Iraq for a start!) why is it fairy tale Sergey?
True,the was a fishing trawler stopped with guns on board I believe but how much else got thru?
Compared to the amount of arms & ammo the IRA smuggled in over the years,100 gats is small change.
Spike, have you credible reports that IRA baught weapons directly in Russia or in Soviet Union? I strongly doubt that such reports exist.
Not directly, but I suspect your boys on Lubyanka Square knew what was going on,and probably approved.

Subsequent Garda Síochána (Irish police) arms finds in 1988 included several hundred AK-47s, Russian DSHK HMGs, M60 machine guns and Semtex.[18
Source: here

Footnote 18:
The AK-47s found included models from Romania, Yugoslavia and the USSR. See (O'Brien p143). It is also worth noting that between 1975 and 1981, the government of Czechoslovakia exported nearly seven hundred tonnes of Semtex to Libya. See here for details. Throughout the period following the discovery of the Eskund shipment, 25,000–50,000 house searches island wide took place to find arms previously shipped, See Bowyer Bell page 571.
(Apologies for it being wikipedia)
And what? As you have said there are no evidences that Russia or Soviet Union supplied IRA with weapons.
 
#28
KGB_resident said:
spike7451 said:
Well if the IRA can smuggle X amount of AK's, RPG & Russian MG's into the province,(which is a lot smaller that Iraq for a start!) why is it fairy tale Sergey?
True,the was a fishing trawler stopped with guns on board I believe but how much else got thru?
Compared to the amount of arms & ammo the IRA smuggled in over the years,100 gats is small change.
Spike, have you credible reports that IRA baught weapons directly in Russia or in Soviet Union? I strongly doubt that such reports exist.
Sergey,Where did I say that the IRA bought weapons from Russia.A lot of the
AK's were copies made elsewhere around the globe.Libya for example.
My point was if they can do it,so can Iran/Iraq.
Granted tho,funding for these IRA weapoNs often came from NorAid in the USof A.
 
#29
spike7451 said:
Granted tho,funding for these IRA weapoNs often came from NorAid in the USof A.
NorAid was a drop in the IRA funding ocean, but helped keep Boston Irish twats feling good about themselves.

The vast majority of PIRA funding came out of British taxes, via protection scams causing building contractors in NI to bump up their costs to fund backhanders to paramilitaries on both sides of the divide.

After that - illegal drinking clubs, gaming machines, and drugs.

Where did the money get spent to buy the AKs etc? That's another question.

Nothing wrong with a good helping of plausible deniabiltity when nation A is flogging weapons to Movement C via intermediary B, is there?
 
#30
Stonker said:
spike7451 said:
Granted tho,funding for these IRA weapoNs often came from NorAid in the USof A.
NorAid was a drop in the IRA funding ocean, but helped keep Boston Irish twats feling good about themselves.

The vast majority of PIRA funding came out of British taxes, via protection scams causing building contractors in NI to bump up their costs to fund backhanders to paramilitaries on both sides of the divide.

After that - illegal drinking clubs, gaming machines, and drugs.

Where did the money get spent to buy the AKs etc? That's another question.


Nothing wrong with a good helping of plausible deniabiltity when nation A is flogging weapons to Movement C via intermediary B, is there?
Libya has been mentioned but where did they get them from in the first place?
 
#31
More than 100 of the.50 calibre weapons, capable of penetrating body armour, have been discovered by American troops during raids.
Capable of penetrating body armour eh? And the fcuking rest!
 
#32
Spike, have you credible reports that IRA baught weapons directly in Russia or in Soviet Union? I strongly doubt that such reports exist.
Actually Sergey back in the 1970s the IRA was supplied by the Czechs and there was at one time a Czech gunman in N Ireland that had to be closed down. The USSR preferred to let the Czechs bear the costs of donating weapons to terrorists - just as the Czechs supplied Semtex to our Irish friends
 
#33
So we're all in agreement then that the Iranian authorities are behind all this, are we? (my highlighting)

San Francisco Chronicle said:
Pace Questions Whether Iran Arming Iraq

By CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, February 13, 2007


The top U.S. military officer said Tuesday the discovery that roadside bombs in Iraq contained material made in Iran does not necessarily mean the Iranian government was involved in supplying insurgents.

The comments by Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called into question assertions by three senior U.S. military officials in Baghdad on Sunday who said the highest levels of Iranian government were responsible for arming Shiite militants in Iraq with the bombs, blamed for the deaths of more than 170 troops in the U.S.-led coalition.

White House spokesman Tony Snow said Monday he was confident the weaponry was coming with the approval of the Iranian government. On Tuesday, Snow said Pace's comments do not conflict with those of the senior military officials or the White House.

Pace told reporters in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta, that U.S. forces hunting militant networks in Iraq that produced roadside bombs had arrested Iranians and some of the materials used in the devices were made in Iran.

"That does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this," Pace said. "What it does say is that things made in Iran are being used in Iraq to kill coalition soldiers."

On Monday, Pace said he had no firm knowledge that the Iranian government had sanctioned the arming of the insurgents.

"It is clear that Iranians are involved, and it's clear that materials from Iran are involved, but I would not say by what I know that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit,"
Pace told the Voice of America.

Cont/...
 
#34
As I've said elsewhere, arming Iraqi insurgents would probably seem to be the most logical course of action for Iranians, even if it isn't the government. (And remember, the Revolutionary Guard answers to the Khameni and the Guardianship Council, not Ahmadinejad.) However, there are a number of questions that need to be answered here:

1. Do the serial numbers of the weapons match those which left the Steyr factory? Should be fairly easy to check. If not, I'd be inclined to say case closed immediately.

2. Has anyone bothered to check the usual suspects in terms of arms dealers? Come on gents! Lord of War didn't do that badly at the box office, did it?

3. Why would Iran give them these weapons, which are hideously expensive, are (as far as I can tell) not ideally suited for the environs in which they are being used and would immediately raise a red flag if any were seized? Far better to get hold of some SVDs/SVD copies- simpler, cheaper and could have come from pretty much anywhere.

I find it puzzling that there are those in the US administration who would accuse the Iranians of being evil geniuses on one hand and would, on the other, give us a situation that makes them look so stupid.

I think, in administration circles in Washington there is very much an eagerness to "deal" with Iran. The problem is that nobody else in the US trusts them to do a decent job of it, much less thinks it's a good idea. So, slowly, they start the war drums beating quietly- a little story here, a press leak there. Look how they started the ball rolling with Iraq.
 
#35
Stonker said:
spike7451 said:
Granted tho,funding for these IRA weapoNs often came from NorAid in the USof A.
NorAid was a drop in the IRA funding ocean, but helped keep Boston Irish twats feling good about themselves.

The vast majority of PIRA funding came out of British taxes, via protection scams causing building contractors in NI to bump up their costs to fund backhanders to paramilitaries on both sides of the divide.

After that - illegal drinking clubs, gaming machines, and drugs.

Where did the money get spent to buy the AKs etc? That's another question.

Nothing wrong with a good helping of plausible deniabiltity when nation A is flogging weapons to Movement C via intermediary B, is there?
Did anybody else ever catch the old 'Mark Thomas Product' shows on Channel 4? He did a very interesting program on how 'legit' arms dealers would bypass embargoes.

I'll see if I can dig some of it up on you tube as it's worth watching to learn about some of the tricks employed.
 

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