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Iraq. Militants take back Mosul, Tikrit and march on Baghdad

The following is a rather interesting story on conditions in Mosul. When the story is dead bodies rotting in the streets of Mosul, how much is too much for audiences? | CBC News
Warning: the video embedded in the above news story contains graphic content.

The central theme of the article is about how graphic news reports should get when discussing the casualties of war. The article is a by-product of a CBC series on investigative reporting, in this case they interviewed a Vice News reporter who did a report on Mosul (to be aired soon on Vice). However, in the course of this story they present some very interesting facts about current conditions in Mosul.

More than 8 months after victory was declared over IS in Mosul, the streets of the city are still filled with rotting corpses.
What he found were overwhelming scenes of decomposing bodies.
"The scale of the bodies that you see in our story is the reality of life in Mosul right now," Walker said.
These are mainly of dead IS fighters and their families.
In the Old City, where ISIS made its last stand, he saw dead bodies in plain sight, mostly of killed ISIS fighters and their families.
The sheer scale of the numbers of bodies strewn about and in the rubble is such that it is hindering reconstruction.
"But very quickly when we got on the ground, we saw the scale of bodies that are still strewn amongst the rubble. And this is a huge hindrance to rebuilding. They can't actually rebuild houses until they clear those bodies out of there."
Civilian volunteers have been going from house to house in Iraq's second-largest city removing corpses.
In a video titled Inside the Killing Rooms of Mosul, Walker profiles a team of citizen volunteers going house to house in Iraq's second-largest city and removing the corpses that rot in the streets or jut out from piles of rubble.
In the basement of one "blown-out" building, dozens of bodies were found. Who they are isn't clear. The people who still live in the area though have to live with the ever present stench of death months after the fighting stopped.
In one scene, what appears to be dozens of bodies were discovered piled on top of one another in the basement of a blown-out building. Who they were, who killed them, and why isn't clear. It may never be. But Walker feels he's done his job if viewers are left feeling outraged and saddened for the families still living with the stench of death months after the fighting stopped.




One of the things I find most interesting about the war in Iraq is how little news reporting we see on it despite the scale of death and destruction. This thread for example has seen comparatively little activity so far this year. I see little to nothing in the news about what IS has been up to, if anything in Iraq lately. Yet, the Iraq war is of far more importance to western countries than for example Syria is, as it directly affects our central interests in the region, namely oil supplies.

The scale of death and destruction in Mosul seems to be very large and certainly deserves more news reporting than we have seen thus far.
 
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The following is a rather interesting story on conditions in Mosul. When the story is dead bodies rotting in the streets of Mosul, how much is too much for audiences? | CBC News
Warning: the video embedded in the above news story contains graphic content.

The central theme of the article is about how graphic news reports should get when discussing the casualties of war. The article is a by-product of a CBC series on investigative reporting, in this case they interviewed a Vice News reporter who had done a report on Mosul (to be aired soon on Vice). However, in the course of this story they present some very interesting facts about current conditions in Mosul.

More than 8 months after victory was declared over IS in Mosul, the streets of the city are still filled with rotting corpses.


These are mainly of dead IS fighters and their families.


The sheer scale of the numbers of bodies strewn about and in the rubble is such that it is hindering reconstruction.


Civilian volunteers have been going from house to house in Iraq's second-largest city removing corpses.


In the basement of one "blown-out" building, dozens of bodies were found. Who they are isn't clear. The people who still live in the area though have to live with the ever present stench of death months after the fighting stopped.






One of the things I find most interesting about the war in Iraq is how little news reporting we see on it despite the scale of death and destruction. This thread for example has seen comparatively little activity so far this year. I see little to nothing in the news about what IS has been up to, if anything in Iraq lately. Yet, the Iraq war is of far more importance to western countries than for example Syria is, as it directly affects our central interests in the region, namely oil supplies.

The scale of death and destruction in Mosul seems to be very large and certainly deserves more news reporting than we have seen thus far.
Video is worth watching. Text can sometimes be fast though so may need to use pause at times or rewind then forward. Very grim conditions. Understand both points of view. Local govt "IS are scum let them rot there" but meanwhile people need corpses to be moved, normalicy to be restored and businesses rebuilt. Unfortunately there will be no full explanations for many and much will remain a mystery, including suspected human shields. Thanks for posting this.
 
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I found the original video which the above news story shows parts of. This isn't the full Vice News video, it's an 11 minute trailer. None the less it contains a great deal of information. It is well worth watching provided you can stand the sight of the numerous badly decomposed corpses. Definitely do not watch if this is a problem for you, as there area only a few scenes in which corpses are not visible.

One incidental thing that does come across in the video is the great scale of the destruction in Mosul which was caused by the air strikes. The recovery and rebuilding required will take years and huge sums of money.

WARNING - VERY GRAPHIC CONTENT
 
Video is worth watching. Text can sometimes be fast though so may need to use pause at times or rewind then forward. Very grim conditions. Understand both points of view. Local govt "IS are scum let them rot there" but meanwhile people need corpses to be moved, normalicy to be restored and businesses rebuilt. Unfortunately there will be no full explanations for many and much will remain a mystery, including suspected human shields. Thanks for posting this.
The possibility was raised that at least some of the bodies were people (including women and children) summarily executed by Iraqi security forces under suspicion of being members of IS. If this is so, then leaving the bodies to rot may be part of a decision to avoid having to answer too many questions about how they got there in the first place.

I believe that I posted a story on this thread earlier which mentioned that the Iraqi government intended to execute large numbers of prisoners. It would not be overly surprising if in some cases it was decided to avoid the paperwork involved in an arrest and trial to begin with.

I don't have any sympathy for active IS members, given how they treated the people who fell into their power. They bought and sold adolescent Yazidi girls as slaves and treated them abominably. I'm also not going to cry if quite a number of Western "religious study students" are among those rotting in the streets of Mosul. It will likely save us some headaches of our own later.

We shouldn't however be under any illusions about the government or army of Iraq being somehow nicer and more cuddly than the governments of certain other countries who don't happen to fall under our umbrella of immunity.
 
...the Iraq war is of far more importance to western countries than for example Syria is, as it directly affects our central interests in the region, namely oil supplies.
I reckon that for Washington (and thus for 'western countries) Iraq, current event here, alleged wrongdoings of ruling regime is something marginal, not worth attention. By contrast Syria is now a focal point of geopolitical contest between Moscow and Washington.
 
The possibility was raised that at least some of the bodies were people (including women and children) summarily executed by Iraqi security forces under suspicion of being members of IS. If this is so, then leaving the bodies to rot may be part of a decision to avoid having to answer too many questions about how they got there in the first place.

I believe that I posted a story on this thread earlier which mentioned that the Iraqi government intended to execute large numbers of prisoners. It would not be overly surprising if in some cases it was decided to avoid the paperwork involved in an arrest and trial to begin with.

I don't have any sympathy for active IS members, given how they treated the people who fell into their power. They bought and sold adolescent Yazidi girls as slaves and treated them abominably. I'm also not going to cry if quite a number of Western "religious study students" are among those rotting in the streets of Mosul. It will likely save us some headaches of our own later.

We shouldn't however be under any illusions about the government or army of Iraq being somehow nicer and more cuddly than the governments of certain other countries who don't happen to fall under our umbrella of immunity.
The rise of IS was aided by neglect and abuse of Sunni communities in Iraq. I think it is probably politically unpalatable for people holding power in Baghdad to be seen to be rewarding insurgency with regeneration.

I imagine that Mosul, and elsewhere, will be rebuilt with time and money sourced from volunteers rather than centrally.

Sadly I think people are weary of what happens in Iraq and possibly at a loss to understand the sectarian nature of the horror.
 
I reckon that for Washington (and thus for 'western countries) Iraq, current event here, alleged wrongdoings of ruling regime is something marginal, not worth attention.
Ditto for Russia in Aghanistan. Don't forget it was happening much earlier too. Peter the Great had a rep for industrial espionage, dressed up as a learning tour.
 
The rise of IS was aided by neglect and abuse of Sunni communities in Iraq. I think it is probably politically unpalatable for people holding power in Baghdad to be seen to be rewarding insurgency with regeneration.

I imagine that Mosul, and elsewhere, will be rebuilt with time and money sourced from volunteers rather than centrally.

Sadly I think people are weary of what happens in Iraq and possibly at a loss to understand the sectarian nature of the horror.
I agree, but I also think if Iraq and Syria don’t do anything to include the Sunni population IS will carry on and/or rise again. Unlikely with Iranian influence in the country.

IIRC there’s something about not burying the IS bodies on purpose.
 
I found the original video which the above news story shows parts of. This isn't the full Vice News video, it's an 11 minute trailer. None the less it contains a great deal of information. It is well worth watching provided you can stand the sight of the numerous badly decomposed corpses. Definitely do not watch if this is a problem for you, as there area only a few scenes in which corpses are not visible.

One incidental thing that does come across in the video is the great scale of the destruction in Mosul which was caused by the air strikes. The recovery and rebuilding required will take years and huge sums of money.

WARNING - VERY GRAPHIC CONTENT
An interesting report although I found the question to the Irqai general regarding a human rights investigation a tad naive. If there was one it probably went along the lines of looking into the building, coming out and a comment along the lines of "consider that investigated". As you mention the level of destruction I think that will be more of a priority for all those concerned than who did what to who and when. Probably no families that do not have lost members to mourn.
 
I agree, but I also think if Iraq and Syria don’t do anything to include the Sunni population IS will carry on and/or rise again. Unlikely with Iranian influence in the country.

IIRC there’s something about not burying the IS bodies on purpose.
Not sure about the exact details other than not burying somebody who is a muslim in a prompt manner is against their religion. Leaving them out in the open and the body liable for desecration by the likes of dogs is a deliberate insult. Once dead care should be taken not to desecrate the body although that was something the Al-Queda lot obviously hadn't read up on that bit during RE. By the sounds of things IS wasn't such different.
 
Ditto for Russia in Aghanistan. Don't forget it was happening much earlier too. Peter the Great had a rep for industrial espionage, dressed up as a learning tour.
That wasn't DU though.
Big difference between DU/ non-DU in the long term..

In short term it's all the same though.
Destruction is just destruction except when it's radioactive destruction.

1523833774007.png
 
as if the means of despatch matters and really didn't see Russia making a song and dance about it then.
That's because it wasn't rolled out into theatre, by the septics, till the 1991 GW.
300+ tonnes of DU were apparently used in that particular theatre at that particular time.

1523859080086.png


No idea how much has been used in all theatres since '01, must be tens of thousands of tonnes(?)

I would bet the Ru/PRC have it and (would) use it now too though.

Iraq s certainly paying the long-term price anyway.
As is Ganners.

U.S. Depleted Uranium as Malicious as Syrian Chemical Weapons | HuffPost

1523859436168.png
 
That's because it wasn't rolled out into theatre, by the septics, till the 1991 GW.
300+ tonnes of DU were apparently used in that particular theatre at that particular time.

View attachment 331107

No idea how much has been used in all theatres since '01, must be tens of thousands of tonnes(?)

I would bet the Ru/PRC have it and (would) use it now too though.

Iraq s certainly paying the long-term price anyway.
As is Ganners.

U.S. Depleted Uranium as Malicious as Syrian Chemical Weapons | HuffPost

View attachment 331108
You expect me to cry tears over that. It's in the nature of war to destroy and distort. I thought the point had been made a Sabra and Chattila and Halabja. It's been made time and again. There is a convention on the misuse of CW which has been signed up to but you seem to think that actually we should be m ore worried about DU which has been used in a limited conflict situation when you must know there's been a practically unregulated black market in ex soviet fissile material. Or may be you hadn't heard of the hooha about dirty bombs. Ever since the UN was set up with the veto system it's been a waste of time geared to Russia's benefit. You don't even have to be an expert in UN politics to know when the Russian veto will be used.
We just dropped bombs because apparently it does.
and the casualty count is.
 
That's because it wasn't rolled out into theatre, by the septics, till the 1991 GW.
300+ tonnes of DU were apparently used in that particular theatre at that particular time.

View attachment 331107

No idea how much has been used in all theatres since '01, must be tens of thousands of tonnes(?)

I would bet the Ru/PRC have it and (would) use it now too though.

Iraq s certainly paying the long-term price anyway.
As is Ganners.

U.S. Depleted Uranium as Malicious as Syrian Chemical Weapons | HuffPost

View attachment 331108
But your point was that Mosul has a DU problem, with the implication that this was due to American bombing.
Very little DU has been used , because it is really only good for killing armour, so, why waste it on IS?
There MAY be some Gulf War legacy DU, but Iraq was such a polluted shithole I would hesitate to lay the incidence of north defects at DUs door.
I would question what happened to the enormous amount of CW waste Saddam dumped, Iran/Iraq was wastes and assorted oil and industrial pollutants.
All well known issues.
Mosul battle leaving legacy of environmental damage


Nice try though.
 
and the casualty count is.
Apparently irrelevant, at least according to those who authorised the dropping of the bombs.

Can't help but feel it matters just a tiny bit, meself.
 
Ever since the UN was set up with the veto system it's been a waste of time geared to Russia's benefit. You don't even have to be an expert in UN politics to know when the Russian veto will be used.
Even I can't agree with that. It has been for primary interests eg UK in Rhodesia, US and Israel, Russia/SU on the WarPac etc. The change is after the short period of Russian 'cooperation' and we're now back to square 1, or even worse than we were, by vetoing something which was set up and renewed unanimously (the JIM) as they didn't like the results.

Two of the P5 don't have the media going on about Syria (for example), so they can afford to ignore or veto. Sadly, 'the West' is far too media led. However, to get back to the point, I don't believe it has 'been a waste of time geared to Russia's benefit.' even now.

Whether the P5 would agree to restrict veto powers is a separate matter.
 
Even I can't agree with that. It has been for primary interests eg UK in Rhodesia, US and Israel, Russia/SU on the WarPac etc. The change is after the short period of Russian 'cooperation' and we're now back to square 1, or even worse than we were, by vetoing something which was set up and renewed unanimously (the JIM) as they didn't like the results.

Two of the P5 don't have the media going on about Syria (for example), so they can afford to ignore or veto. Sadly, 'the West' is far too media led. However, to get back to the point, I don't believe it has 'been a waste of time geared to Russia's benefit.' even now.

Whether the P5 would agree to restrict veto powers is a separate matter.
Yeah thanks for the point, but I would ask you to go back to the origin of the UN. Yalta in particular when Russia was in a position of strength through position. I'm not disputing the fact that the UN had it's uses, it was structured in such a way as to make it ineffective. Nor do I overlook the advantages that America have taken. But ultimately we have been here before with the Cuban missile crisis and it was a direct threat of American force that turned it around. Russians will co-operate while they must which was effectively what they did from 1990,but we should never consider it part of their makeup. The paradox for me is that the Russians are no longer "Communist", but they are still pursuing a "communist" agenda of undermining the west. Now if they want to be the replacement for America in economic terms they'd be better off copying China.
Apparently irrelevant, at least according to those who authorised the dropping of the bombs.

Can't help but feel it matters just a tiny bit, meself.
No I meant. what was the casualty count for the raid in question? After alll thy were very careful to avoid damage to
Russian facilities.
 

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