Iraq leaders demand pullout timetable

#1
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/BA0BD6DB-6ED0-493B-92DC-E06294EEB1F4.htm


Iraqi leaders have put persistent differences to one side and agreed on their first joint statement, calling for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops from the country.

Christian, Shia, Sunni and Kurdish leaders also on Monday demanded the release of prisoners and a programme for rebuilding Iraq's armed forces after talks in Cairo aimed at ending conflict between their communities and achieving national reconciliation.


At the end of the three-day meeting sponsored by the Cairo-based Arab League, the Iraqi leaders called for the withdrawal of US and British forces from Iraq by immediately setting a timetable for gradually rebuilding Iraq's armed forces.
Oh but hang on, if we announce a timetable , won't this be "Giving in to terrorism"????

Oh this is a paradox "We will only stay in Iraq as long as they want us there, and not a second longer - Tell us when you are getting out of our bloody country - we are not announcing a timetable for withdrawl, as this is giving in to the terrorists"

FmoBB :roll: Let's see the politicians respond to this one .They can't possibly miss it , it's in the very conspicuous canister marked 'lifeline'

The resolution in more detail there is some disturbing language used here.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aDLgOBgqARvw&refer=top_world_news


Iraqi Leaders Urge a Timetable for Eventual Troop Withdrawal
Nov. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Iraqi leaders, meeting at a reconciliation conference in Cairo, urged an end to violence in the country and demanded a timetable for the withdrawal of coalition troops from Iraq.

In a final statement, read by Arab League chief Amre Moussa, host of the three-day summit, they called for ``the withdrawal of foreign troops according to a timetable, through putting in place an immediate national program to rebuild the armed forces.'' No date was specified.

``The Iraqi people look forward to the day when the foreign forces leave Iraq, when it's armed and security forces will be rebuilt and when they can enjoy peace and stability and get rid of terrorism,'' the leaders said in the statement. The session was broadcast live from the Egyptian capital by al-Jazeera.

The summit was held to prepare for a larger conference scheduled to take place in Baghdad in February. The Arab League is playing an increasing role in attempting to bring Iraq's Kurdish, Shiite, and Sunni groups closer together.

``I consider it a real success,'' Moussa said at a news conference after the closing session. ``I would say we have succeeded in bringing opinions closer by about 70 percent but I will continue to warn against exaggerated expectations.''

``It's a first step, many difficulties and differences remain,'' Moussa said. At one point Shiite and Kurdish delegates stormed out of a closed session when one of the speakers said they had sold out to the U.S., the Associated Press reported.

The final statement also stated that ``resistance is a legitimate right for all people.'' The conference almost collapsed earlier today when Sunni leaders objected to the definition of ``resistance,'' al-Jazeera said.

``Terrorism is not legitimate resistance and thus we condemn terrorism and the acts of violence, killings and kidnappings that target Iraqi citizens; civil, governmental and humanitarian organizations; national wealth and houses of worships,'' the leaders said in the statement.

Shiite civilians have been frequently targeted by Sunni-led insurgents who seek to foment sectarian tensions in the country, and destabilize Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari's government.
 
#2
The article seem's to link rebuilding the armed forces BEFORE withdrawal of foreign forces. When that day comes it will be time to withdraw. The government needs to be able to control its border areas first and then the population centers.
 
#3
That’s as maybe but it clearly calls for a clear timetable for the pullout of troops. Dress it up however you like but they have decided to ask us to leave. No ifs no buts we have to leave.
 
#4
Not only have they asked us to leave, and pulled the rest of the Arab world in , they are asking us to accelerate training of troops most tout suite, and don't let the door hit us in the arrse on the way out.

The language used Tom , also sends a clear message we have outstayed our welcome. We are not referred to as Coalition , Allied or PK's , we're referred to as Foreign.

I really wish you could have seen the Galbraith interview tonight. Hell, I wish you could have seen the admission by the senior State official that we are facilitating the Mahdi Army.
 
#5
Don’t you ever sleep PTP? :D

You are right though – they now see us as part of the problem rather than part of the solution. And I would have to say I don’t disagree. Time has come to get out and let them run things their own way.
 
#6
Can't sleep tonight Ord, I tried, but it's "Dad day" tomorrow. Think I pressed this shirt about 5 times over so far :(

I don't know if you saw C4 Dispatches tonight, but even taking the reporters doom laden message away , it just wasn't good.
 
#7
If we where to leave them with a Perfectly trained Army they would be back to there normal tricks in very short order. Have 'We' not found one of the own 'Prisons' recently.
Compared with the noise that came out over the mistreatmnet at Abu's Grave the wailing over this centre for Black and Decker training as been as silence.
john
 
#8
You know Jonwilly, sometimes I have dark , non-aligned thoughts. Chief among these is "Just how bad was Saddam really"?

I'd like the definitive answer on that.

One things for sure, young muslim women weren't getting stoned to death or shot for wearing a pair of jeans in the wrong area. They certainly weren't taking a bullet up the Yoni for going out with the wrong young man. They sure as hell weren't getting beheaded for not adhering to strict sharia law.

Who provided us with all the figures and reports of Saddams excesses? Not saying he wasn't a murdering despotic bastard, would just like to know how bad he really was.
 
#9
I did nine years working with Arabs and IMO they have not progressed beyond tribalisam, same as Africa.
The Koran has never been updated and is still set in the the year DOT.
We and the yanks did so much to keep Sadam in power back in the days when he took a Panzer assault and converted it back in time to trench warfare. He was no threat to any nation of any size. Kuwait like so many Gulf states had armed forces who are just there to keep the civ pop in line.
Sadam and Arab states revert to basic and the If your not my freind becomes then your my enemy.
I don't think Arabs make good 'conventional' soldiers Military Disipline is an anathama to their Democratic Tribal system. We used to say they could go back one generation to the Camel age and living in tents in the desert.
As a race they got propelled generations into the future by the wealth of Oil but the basics of their belifes have never changed and the system is wide open to fanatics who abuse the teachings of Islam.
I know Muslims here where I live and have no problems with their interpritation of their faith.
john
 
#10
PartTimePongo said:
Not only have they asked us to leave, and pulled the rest of the Arab world in , they are asking us to accelerate training of troops most tout suite, and don't let the door hit us in the arrse on the way out.

The language used Tom , also sends a clear message we have outstayed our welcome. We are not referred to as Coalition , Allied or PK's , we're referred to as Foreign.

I really wish you could have seen the Galbraith interview tonight. Hell, I wish you could have seen the admission by the senior State official that we are facilitating the Mahdi Army.
Pull out then PTP, as always we will turn out the lights.
 
#11
Tom, we weren't talking about pulling out, the Iraqi Government are saying they want us out. That includes US Forces. I thought your team also said "We are only there as long as they want us there, not a second more?"
 
#13
Iraqi Leaders Urge a Timetable for Eventual Troop Withdrawal ------Bloomberg Headline

Iraq leaders demand pullout timetable------------------------------------Aljazeera Headline
There is a big difference in the headlines. Aljazeera is spinning



Nov. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Iraqi leaders, meeting at a reconciliation conference in Cairo, urged an end to violence in the country and demanded a timetable for the withdrawal of coalition troops from Iraq.
I did not see the demand, I did see a called for the withdrawal and a No date was specified. How is that a demand. It seems a pretty tepid statement. The withdrawal of foreign troops according to a timetable. When we withdraw there will have to be some sort of time table, that is just reasonable.through putting in place an immediate national program to rebuild the armed forces--------- of course ,That is what we have been doing for the last 2 years.

In a final statement, read by Arab League chief Amre Moussa, host of the three-day summit, they called for ``the withdrawal of foreign troops according to a timetable, through putting in place an immediate national program to rebuild the armed forces.'' No date was specified
.
As far as coalition troops being referred to a foreign troops, I think the term foreign troops could be more inclusive than just coalition troops. It could mean foreign fighters as well. Foreign troops is referring to Zarqawi and his foreign fighters as well coalition troops.




Don't we all
``The Iraqi people look forward to the day when the foreign forces leave Iraq, when it's armed and security forces will be rebuilt and when they can enjoy peace and stability and get rid of terrorism,'' the leaders said in the statement. The session was broadcast live from the Egyptian capital by al-Jazeera.


Fawzi al-Hariri, a Kurdish representative and Iraqi Foreign Ministry official, played down the language on resistance. "The agreement is as it is stated in the UN Charter, which says that every nation has the right to resist," he told Reuters
This is how I would interrupt the statement below
The final statement also stated that ``resistance is a legitimate right for all people.'' The conference almost collapsed earlier today when Sunni leaders objected to the definition of ``resistance,'' al-Jazeera said.

``Terrorism is not legitimate resistance and thus we condemn terrorism and the acts of violence, killings and kidnappings that target Iraqi citizens; civil, governmental and humanitarian organizations; national wealth and houses of worships,'' the leaders said in the statement
Shiite civilians have been frequently targeted by Sunni-led insurgents who seek to foment sectarian tensions in the country, and destabilize Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari's
We can all agree with that


Also ,there is going to be a new government in a month, let's see what they will say.
 
#14
Peter!

I don't expect any changes after the elections. Future Shia majority will pretend to be 'against occupation' and will rather urge than demand the withdrawal. Really they fear to be accused later as invitors of occupants. So on words many Shia (and Kurdish) leaders would be for the 'timetable'. Really (they are not fools) they prefer current situation than prospect of open Sunni offensive for power.
 
#15
I don' get it NC & T6 you seem to want to be at war in Iraq. Surely a position where by your troops are not getting killed and you are at peace is what is important? Sometimes I just don't get you lot.
 
#17
I don' get it NC & T6 you seem to want to be at war in Iraq. Surely a position where by your troops are not getting killed and you are at peace is what is important? Sometimes I just don't get you lot.
I will just speak for myself, T6 can post for himself. The jihady's , Islamofascist ,terrorist or insurgence you pick the term, need to be defeated. The way to do that in Iraq is to leave Iraq with a government that has a chance to run the country so the citizens can have a decent prosperous life. What does that mean---A functioning democratic government with a Army that can fight and defeat the terrorist. That would be a victory.
 
#19
tomahawk6 said:
Pull out then PTP, as always we will turn out the lights.
Well, considering you have a track record of not showing up until halftime, it's the least you can do. By the way, the last time I checked, you need to have a supply of electricity for the light to be on in the first place.

Neo_Con said:
I will just speak for myself, T6 can post for himself. The jihady's , Islamofascist ,terrorist or insurgence you pick the term, need to be defeated. The way to do that in Iraq is to leave Iraq with a government that has a chance to run the country so the citizens can have a decent prosperous life. What does that mean---A functioning democratic government with a Army that can fight and defeat the terrorist. That would be a victory.
OK, here's the deal. The insurgency is fighting the occupation. Withdrawing coalition troops actually gives Iraq the best chance of staying united and not descending into civil war (if it hasn't already). How does it work?

The Sunni minority are wailing on the Shia because they are being seen as collaborating with occupying force. Sunni leaders would be better able to negotiate with the Shia because they will not be seen by their constituents as collaborating with the enemy also. THIS IS THEIR STATED POSITION and most reports I have seen indicate this too. This way, there is at least a chance that whatever remains of Iraqi nationalism might just hold things together.

A withdrawal would not embolden the Sunni insurgency because what they are fighting is the occupation, not the Shia per se. A withdrawal would not embolden foreign fighters because a) despite what you might have heard from Citizen Dick, they are numerically insignificant and b) most Iraqis can't stand them either and only tolerate them as long as they are attacking the occupiers. In both cases, the fuel for the fire is the occupation, take it away and the fire dies down.

A secular democracy is NEVER going to exist there, so get that idea out of your head immediately. Islamism was encouraged in the 1990s under Saddam and in the absence of other social structures, the Imam's have emerged to fulfil many of the roles that governments have- just look at what Sistani has accomplished.

I think what it comes down to, my spam chums, is what you and your shaved chimp want to get out of this. Do you want a stable Iraq, capable of self-government or do you want the US to maintain its power and to save face? I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you, but right now it looks like the two are mutually exclusive. The only way the US might be able to do it is in the long run, after having done the right thing and taken a hit in order for Iraq to rebuild itself.

Now do us all a favour and stop trying to remake the world in your image.
 

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