Irans Ahmadinejad casts doubt on Holocaust

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Dec 8, 2005.

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  1. http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-12-08T153435Z_01_RID850121_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD.xml


    In other news , rumours abound that David Irving gets offer to write autobiography of undisclosed Middle Eastern Leader..... :roll:
     
  2. How does someone so mentally deficient get to be the preisdent of a country....Hang on..
     
  3. Israel retorted...

    Via reuters....

    .
     
  4. While I believe that Hitler tried to annihilate Jewish people I recognise right of others to doubt.

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar03.html

    Previously I thought (I was under influence of stereotypes) that gas chambers were usual 'hardware' and all concentration camps were in fact extermination camps.
     
  5. I got screamed at,by a very irate Irishman,in my old Bar in Garmisch, trying to explain,very gently that,there were no ´Extermination Camps´in what is now Germany.Gas Chambers were built at Dachau,the first K.Z,but thankfully never used.

    However,hanging,shooting starving,torturing,disease,many were injected as guiniepigs,whatever,hundreds of thousands were murdered in Concentration Camps,spread all over Germany;Belsen,Dachau,Ravensbrück(for women!),Dora,the list goes on and on.

    It doesn´t really matter,in which country they were murdered,it all happened,and is well documented.Also,many thousands of slave labourers,were worked to death,through little food and cold weather.

    The great danger,is in forgetting,or doubting.Then we´re doomed to repeat it.

    No Sergey,not all camps were extermination camps,but they weren´t as harmless as people like to make out.

    midnight.
     
  6. Iran...what a beacon of enlightenment.
    I know...lets try to make friends with them!

    Erm...
     
  7. Absolutely agree with you. For me only atrocity in Babyi Yar where almost 30000 Jew were killed with cold blood by nazi beasts is sufficient proof of their human-hating nature.

    So for me answer to question about genocide of Jewish people is obvious - it happened. But let hear our imaginary opponent. He could say something like this:

    'I doubt, have I right for doubts? If Hitler indeed decided to kill ALL Jews then he no doubt would do it. Posponement of important decisions was not among his habits. If even Simon Wiesenthal doesn't call concentration camps in Germany as extermination camps then can I call them as death camps designed for genocide'

    I would replay that Hitler was a sly henchman. He used different methods. For example in Latvia thousand local Jews were frosen to death by local Latvian fascists.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2529275.stm

    And so on, and so on...

    But, and I am firm on this point. Anybody has right to doubt.
     
  8. I personally doubt that everyone has the right to doubt.

    Is that what you mean?

    8)
     
  9. Does this mean that Mahmoud will shortly be receiving a summons from the Austrian courts?
     
  10. Ahmadinejad is probably trying to out Kim Il Jong for the Crazy Dictator of the Year award.
     
  11. As you doubt yourself then you belong (from you point of view) to those who have right to doubt. So you belong to elite that thinks that others are stupid enough to have own opinion. Today you question right to doubt at least for someones and there is only one step from this point for statement (that was a credo of Hitler and Stalin):

    <<Nobody has right to doubt.>>

    Don't you think that it is right to fight with totalitarism using totalitarian means?

    I was born and lived in country (Soviet Union) where I had to speak this way, to think that way without any doubts. So I recognise right to doubt unconditionally.

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar37.html

    Note, they were POWs, only POWs. If you add fallen on battlefields, millions victims among civil population then you can make a conclusion that the main goal of Hitler was extermination of Russian people.
     
  12. Based on this criteria, does the murder of some 20,000+ Poles in and around Katyn in 1940 similarly mean that the Soviets were 'beasts'?

    http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art6.html

    "Those who died at Katyn included an admiral, two generals, 24 colonels, 79 lieutenant colonels, 258 majors, 654 captains, 17 naval captains, 3,420 NCOs, seven chaplains, three landowners, a prince, 43 officials, 85 privates, and 131 refugees. Also among the dead were 20 university professors; 300 physicians; several hundred lawyers, engineers, and teachers; and more than 100 writers and journalists as well as about 200 pilots. It was their social status that landed them in front of NKVD execution squads. Most of the victims were reservists who had been mobilized when Germany invaded. In all, the NKVD eliminated almost half the Polish officer corps--part of Stalin's long-range effort to prevent the resurgence of an independent Poland.

    Recent historical research shows that 700-900 of the victims were Polish Jews."

    See also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre

    As for Ahmadinejad's latest pronuncement, doubtless this will be breezily dismissed as just something that he says 'for domestic consumption' - Hitler similarly said a lot about the Jews 'for domestic consumption' during the 1930s, except his words became physical reality at places such as Treblinka, Sobibor, Dachau, Belsen...
     
  13. I wouldn´t like to second guess sergey;I think he means that, doubt is a healthy thing,the more you doubt,the more you search,then comes enlightenment,through your own convictions.

    As for the atrocity at Katyn,for well over 40 years,it was believed that the Nazi´s were responsible.Had there have been,no doubt about that,nobody would have bothered to find out.

    Keep on doubting Sergey,it´s healthy;Some people say doubt,when they mean total denial,that´s when it becomes dangerous.

    Midnight 8)
     
  14. Exactly, it was an atrocity commited by Stalin's henchmen. It was a mass murder made because of political reasons. Stalin wanted to add Polland to his empire and these Polish officers were an obstacle for his criminal objectives.

    Fact that they were Polish (some were Jews) is absolutely irrelevant. They were killed mainly because they were officers. By contrast, in Babiy Yar poor victims were killed only because they were Jews. Further, Babiy Yar is only one exmaple among series of similar inhuman acts, while I'm unaware about repetition of Katyn.

    http://www.electronicmuseum.ca/Poland-WW2/katyn_memorial_wall/kmw_D.html

    Btw, my far relative Juzef Dobrzanski was born in 1787 and as a cavalryman took part in 1812 invasion of Napoleon in Russia. As I'm Polish at 1/4 then what is do you think my attitude to atrocity in Katyn? It is a simple one - my brothers were killed.

    As for Ahmadinejad then Israel (it is an official position) doesn't recognise Armenian genocide 1915. Btw, a lot of Armenians live in Iran. So what is a difference between Ahmadinejad and Sharon?
     
  15. Fair enough points Sergey. At the risk of dragging this off topic, what is the attitude to crimes committed during the Soviet era - either against Soviet or other peoples - in Russia today?

    My own opinion as to the 'difference' between Sharon and Ahmadinejad is that Sharon can at least guard his tongue - oh, and he doesn't deny that the Holocaust occured. It is disappointing to hear that Israel officially refuses to view the Armenian Genocide as an actual genocide , doubtless due to their friendly relations with Turkey.