Iran military in Syria fire '20 MISSILES' at Israel targets in Golan Heights

[scalieback]

you brought up Lebanon in post 49

In response to your point on Lebanon

correct but since UNPROFOR has there been a major contribution of British troops to any, let’s say more robust, UN mission?

Which part of ‘war fighting ops’ do you believe I missed?

People criticise the UN for not doing enough yet they partially control the mandate and then don’t provide troops.

I’ve said before I have no problem. The trouble is we’ve been warfighting/COIN pretty much on and off since ‘68 plus various NATO Ops. We’ve been supplying SMEs on U.N. and EuFor ops for years. Just not formed units per se on U.N. ops other than Cyprus.

absolutely

But we do have a naval vessel in the Med on the EU mission, we have/had personnel training locals in Mali and Somalia, we had personnel with ISAF.

I’m not saying you’re not doing anything. It’s in response to the rather pithy comment “...when is the UK going to join the party?”

If we hadn’t have put troops on the ground with UNDOF there was a very high possibility of the mission ceasing, that assists in preventing the conflict spreading (as does UNIFIL).

I’ve no problem with either force. They need strong RoEs as well. They also should be equipped by the U.N. including drones and the ability to conduct counter battery fire.

 

[skid2]

Im sure there was no reason for the Irish government to ban booze on deployments… oh wait…

And we send resealed bottles of ‘hair conditioner’, ‘shampoo’, ‘old spice’ and whatever else to our own in theatre.

 

[irlsgt]

After 32,000 deployments, the penny should have dropped you are doing the square root of bugger all.

From 1978 to 2006 it was a peacekeeping mission which saw a lot of fighting.

Since 2006, there has been only minor incidents why because it became a peace enforcement mission.

Ireland didn’t get a vote on changing the mandate, the UK and others did

 

[scalieback]

Ireland didn’t get a vote on changing the mandate, the UK and others did

You may get a seat in 2021. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[irlsgt]

Which part of ‘war fighting ops’ do you believe I missed?

I’ve said before I have no problem. The trouble is we’ve been warfighting/COIN pretty much on and off since ‘68 plus various NATO Ops. We’ve been supplying SMEs on U.N. and EuFor ops for years. Just not formed units per se on U.N. ops other than Cyprus.

I’m not saying you’re not doing anything. It’s in response to the rather pithy comment “...when is the UK going to join the party?”

I’ve no problem with either force. They need strong RoEs as well. They also should be equipped by the U.N. including drones and the ability to conduct counter battery fire.

Which all stems from the same thing with the exception of China, all the permanent UNSC members decide to deploy a UN force, often give it a weak and unachieveable mandate (which decides the RoE), they set an unrealistic troop levels to achieve the mandate to keep costs down.

They refuse to provide troops. They give out about the troops who do deploy.

They give out about the mandate not being fulfilled.

The UK has contributed to the very stable situation in UNFICYP but not any of the more robust missions since UNPROFOR.

There is a place for individuals it’s formed units that the UN is short of

 

[irlsgt]

You may get a seat in 2021. Be careful what you wish for.

Not a permanent seat

We have been trying to get a permanent seat for a long time

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

Which all stems from the same thing with the exception of China, all the permanent UNSC members decide to deploy a UN force, often give it a weak and unachieveable mandate (which decides the RoE), they set an unrealistic troop levels to achieve the mandate to keep costs down.

They refuse to provide troops. They give out about the troops who do deploy.

They give out about the mandate not being fulfilled.

Well then.Why dignify it by participating in it?

 

[retread2]

Then petition the Irish government to pull out.

You can always redeploy to the NI border to enforce customs collections.

Given their (IrDF's) track record duting 'the troubles' they wouldn't recognise the border if they fell over it.

 

[scalieback]

Which all stems from the same thing with the exception of China, all the permanent UNSC members decide to deploy a UN force, often give it a weak and unachieveable mandate (which decides the RoE), they set an unrealistic troop levels to achieve the mandate to keep costs down

China voted to not give you weak RoEs? It’s not just the P5 btw.

They’ve stepped up to the mark and have given troops, albeit there are conflicting reports on their usefulness.

If Ireland had been conducting ‘warfighting/COIN Ops’ for fifty years you might feel differently.

Seems to me you’re complaining about doing peacekeeping ops and don’t think the U.K. are pulling their weight when they have been in other areas, hence your pithy comment.

Not a permanent seat

Whose do you want? Russia’s? China’s? France’s?

We have been trying to get a permanent seat for a long time

Sure. I wouldn’t hold your breath personally. India and other BRICS countries would be before you.

 

[irlsgt]

China voted to not give you weak RoEs? It’s not just the P5 btw.

absolutely but it’s the p5 that influence other countries votes and have vetos

If Ireland had been conducting ‘warfighting/COIN Ops’ for fifty years you might feel differently.

Seems to me you’re complaining about doing peacekeeping ops and don’t think the U.K. are pulling their weight when they have been in other areas, hence your pithy comment.

i’m not i’m Very much pro peace support ops.

My point is that countries can’t give out about the effectiveness of UN ops when they have an influence over their establishment and fail to provide meaningful troop numbers.

Whose do you want? Russia’s? China’s? France’s?

afaik the campaign is for a P6

 

[scalieback]

absolutely but it’s the p5 that influence other countries votes and have vetos

I realise that. It’s why I often talk about unanimous UNSC Resolutions

i’m not i’m Very much pro peace support ops.

My point is that countries can’t give out about the effectiveness of UN ops when they have an influence over their establishment and fail to provide meaningful troop numbers.

I’ve always said the U.N. should have strong RoEs. It’s not just the UK, or the P5 or even the UNSC. It’s what the Charter says and what their lawyers say. Same on U.K. Ops and the ‘legalese’. The only one you always get is ‘the inherent right to self defence’

afaik the campaign is for a P6

I still doubt Ireland would be up there. Europe would be covered by France. Russia, China and US obviously, so they’d add India, a S American, an African and an Australasian permanent member.

 

[MuddyOldEngineer]

If you insist on sitting in no mans land when two bigger dogs tear into each other, it shoudnt come as a surprise when you get bit.

Top tip: IDF don't do 'proportional' - they understand that in their situation, the old 'Ultra Violence' is the only way to react. If they think you are either directly, or indirectly helping the other side, you become a very legitimate target in their eyes.

Did you deploy on any UN tours or did you just deploy on war fighting operations ?

 

[Gary Cooper]

Given their (IrDF's) track record duting 'the troubles' they wouldn't recognise the border if they fell over it.

We don't recognise the border. It's in the constitution.

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

Not a permanent seat

We have been trying to get a permanent seat for a long time

Christ.The Irish civil service and political class would have a collective orgasm if they got that. An even bigger gravy train than the EU.

 

[Themanwho]

(Yawn, pissed stained old man) I served you know... (Yawn, piss stained old man)

No you didn't, but the piss-stained bit is unsurprising.

 

[meerkatz]

i’m Very much pro peace support ops.
6

Unfortunately, you have chosen to 'peacekeep' at the sufferance of the biggest regional kid who basically just tolerates you - as long as you don't irritate him be pretending you have any say in his business.

 

[irlsgt]

We don't recognise the border. It's in the constitution.

Changed in 1998

There was plenty of times the Irish Defence Forces provided a southern cordon for the British Army

 

[irlsgt]

I realise that. It’s why I often talk about unanimous UNSC Resolutions

I’ve always said the U.N. should have strong RoEs. It’s not just the UK, or the P5 or even the UNSC. It’s what the Charter says and what their lawyers say. Same on U.K. Ops and the ‘legalese’. The only one you always get is ‘the inherent right to self defence’

I still doubt Ireland would be up there. Europe would be covered by France. Russia, China and US obviously, so they’d add India, a S American, an African and an Australasian permanent member.

Remember the first Gulf War had a UN mandate

I agree the chances of a permanent seat are very very very slim

 

[scalieback]

Remember the first Gulf War had a UN mandate

There’s plenty of unanimous UNSC Resolutions. Like the one on IS, like Syria getting rid of CW (2118 ) or the ‘roadmap for peace’ (2254) or 1718 on DPRK. Often it’s compliance with them

I agree the chances of a permanent seat are very very very slim

More exceedingly slim to zero. It should be by continents imo. Nothing would get done (less than now), but it would be fairer

 

[Gary Cooper]

Changed in 1998.....

Technically. Articles 2 and 3 as amended are warm, fuzzy-wuzzy ways of saying we own the whole island but not in so many words.