IRA men face extradition

#1
From the BBC - and apologies for the length:

Colombia trio 'create problems'


Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern has said the return of three republicans sentenced in Colombia created "enormous difficulties" for the peace process.
Niall Connolly, Martin McCauley and James Monaghan were sentenced to 17 years in jail for training rebels but vanished in December while on bail.

They returned to the Irish Republic and Colombia wants them to be extradited.

Mr Ahern said it would be a matter for the courts alone and that no deal had been done over the men with Sinn Fein.

Speaking in County Kerry he said the men's situation was never part of political discussions with Sinn Fein, and there had been no deal done for their return.

BBC News' John Thorne said Mr Ahern had described suggestions that a deal had been done as "false, untrue and unhelpful".

Colombia's vice-president said Irish authorities had a "legal and moral obligation" to return the republicans.

Currently, the two countries do not have an extradition treaty.

'No deal'

Colombian Vice-President Francisco Santos said in a statement: "Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern must demonstrate his country's commitment to the global fight against terrorism."

The Colombian police are believed to be preparing an extradition warrant for the trio.

Unionists greeted the men's return to the Irish Republic with anger, but it was welcomed by Sinn Fein.

Irish state broadcaster RTE reported the trio had returned in recent days.

Jim Monaghan, interviewed by RTE at a secret location, denied that any deal had been done with the British or Irish governments following the IRA's statement last week in which it said it was ending its campaign of violence.

He said he did not consider himself to be "on the run" and would not be hiding from Irish police.

Monaghan would not say how the three men got back to the Republic of Ireland, but that they had got "a lot of help from a lot of people" and that he would not endanger them.

He said he hoped the Irish government would not place any obstacles in the way of the three men staying in the country, adding it would be "very remiss to send anyone back to Colombia".

He said the men would be seeking legal advice about the possibility of extradition back to Colombia.

Intelligence sources believe the three Irishmen left via Venezuela before going to Cuba, where Niall Connolly had been Sinn Fein's representative, BBC correspondent Jeremy McDermott reported from Colombia.

Mr Santos said: "They have a judicial sentence over their heads and we sincerely hope that they pay jail for it.

"We hope that the international police system will hand them over to Colombia, even though that's difficult because there's no extradition treaty between Ireland and Colombia."

'Serious issues'

Irish deputy prime minister Mary Harney said there were "very serious issues to be addressed, seeing as they were travelling on false passports".

And a Northern Ireland Office spokesman said: "We have only just become aware of the presence of these men in the Republic of Ireland.

"That is a matter for the Irish authorities. If they enter the UK, an extradition request will be dealt with without delay."

The men, who had been accused of being IRA members, were arrested in Bogota in August 2001.

They were found guilty of travelling on false passports, in June 2004, but were acquitted of training Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Farc) guerrillas.

That decision was reversed after an appeal by the Colombian attorney general and they were sentenced to 17-year terms.

A judge had ordered the men to remain in the country pending the outcome of the appeal.

An international arrest warrant was issued for them after they disappeared.

McCauley, 41, is from Lurgan in County Armagh, Monaghan, 58, is from County Donegal and Connolly, 38, is from Dublin.
Story is here.

Let's hope that the Taoiseach makes the right call on this one, and supports the extradition of these murders and criminals back to Colombia to rot in a filthy prison for the rest of their days.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#2
Can't believe they got bail in the first place. Like they weren't going to f*ck off were they? Honest Guv.

Well, in this current climate, they should be sent back. To deny the Columbians justice would show the world that the Irish do have double standards, when it comes to dealing with their own.
 
#3
"Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern has said the return of three republicans sentenced in Colombia created "enormous difficulties" for the peace process. "
Luv to hear a full explanation of that line.
john
 
#4
Biscuits_AB said:
Can't believe they got bail in the first place. Like they weren't going to f*ck off were they? Honest Guv.

Well, in this current climate, they should be sent back. To deny the Columbians justice would show the world that the Irish do have double standards, when it comes to dealing with their own.
If they're not extradited (which they most certainly shouldn't be), then the Irish will have proved that they have double standards? So how does that make the Irish different from any other nation then?

MsG
 
#5
Why do you say they shouldn't be extradited? Surely you mean they should. They are convicted terrorists and have a sentence to serve in Colombia.
 
#6
Good shout Ord Bloke!

Bugsy - was that a typo or are you going to expand on why you feel this mudering filth shouldn't be extradited, or reasons why the Colombian government shouldn't be allowed to at least ascertain exactly what these maniacs were doing on their soil?
 
#7
No, DD, that wasn't a typo. They shouldn't be extradited.
When that ugly-looking Louise Whatsername Brit biddy was sent down for murder in America, the uproar in the UK was so great, that she was evantually released - in spite of having been found guilty.
These three men were accused of training FARC guerillas and were acquitted of the charge - until somebody had a word.
You, DD, and others in this thread want them extradited solely because they're (ostensibly) IRA and for no other reason. And you also want them extradited to that "model democracy" Colombia.
The term "murdering filth" does rather give the game away.
There was also some mention of double standards. But these are obviously OK when applied to Brits.
That's why I say they should not be extradited.

MsG
 
#8
they should be extradited - they have been convicted of an offence under Colombian law and should serve their sentence. If we (in Europe) pick and choose which countries we extradited fugitives to how can we possibly expect to extradite from other parts of the world? would your view be different if these three fugitives had been convicted at the central criminal court of terrorism charges arising from their involvement in training Al Qaeda murderers?
 
#9
Bugsy7 said:
No, DD, that wasn't a typo. They shouldn't be extradited.
When that ugly-looking Louise Whatsername Brit biddy was sent down for murder in America, the uproar in the UK was so great, that she was evantually released - in spite of having been found guilty.
These three men were accused of training FARC guerillas and were acquitted of the charge - until somebody had a word.
You, DD, and others in this thread want them extradited solely because they're (ostensibly) IRA and for no other reason. And you also want them extradited to that "model democracy" Colombia.
The term "murdering filth" does rather give the game away.
There was also some mention of double standards. But these are obviously OK when applied to Brits.
That's why I say they should not be extradited.

MsG
Lets hope they just vanish ehh? wink wink
 
#10
To quote Poppy: Would your view be different if these three fugitives had been convicted at the central criminal court of terrorism charges arising from their involvement in training Al Qaeda murderers?
But they weren't.
I'd also have a different view if they were kiddy-fiddlers or rapists. But they are accused of none of these either. They were also acquitted (that means found NOT GUILTY) of the charges until the Colombian AG decided (unilaterally) that they were guilty after all.
Just about every Western nation is up in arms crying foul every time one of their nationals is convicted of whatever in another country, but when the ROI does the same, suddenly it's applying double standards.
And if we replace IRA with SAS wherever it crops up in the conversation, we most probably wouldn't even be having this discussion - which in itself is about equal treatment.

MsG
 
#11
Crazy is banging his head against a brick wall in frustration. Crazy is very glad he is going to be leaving the building soon.

These guys are going be on the podiums at the rallys between now and the next election. After which Bertie Ahern will fcuk us all.
 
#12
I seem to remember something in the Int Corps forum about one of these characters being "sighted" in the Green Box o'Nuts a couple of months ago...presumably it got modded?
 
#13
I'm kinda in two minds about those fella's. They've a record as long as your arm. T are techy types who excelled at building bombs and inprovised mortars. The third was allegedly the Sinn Fein representive in Cuba. (eh? Sinn fein has a diplomatic corps?)

However, they claim they were in Columbia to observe the negociations that were happening then. Which, unfortunatly, is quite plasible.

They say they used false passports as their criminal record would have prevented them from entering. Which was a criminal act, and one they've done the time for.

The appeal court took months to examine all evidence against them, and listened to their defence. It aquitted them, said the prosecution case was neglible. However, it insisted that they remain in the country until the military court, which I think had higher precedence in Columbia, (not a lawyer, sorry. Correct me if I'm wrong) took the case in a closed court, no jury, no legal advice. They apparently read three months of evidence, legal opinion and verdict in two hours, came out and pronounced the men guilty for 17 years.

Sorry lads: If a british citizen was treated like that, there would be absolute uproar.

I gather the Columbia govt are going to ask for an extradition. Sure. And the Irish govt should listen to it, and then insist that the columbian govt submit all their evidence before an Judge and Jury: Not some Kangaroo Court of Colonels.
 
#14
Of course, Bugsy your example is slightly flawed. The 3 murdering scum flith who were caught in columbia are actually guilty. They were caught training FARC.

"On 11 August 2001, authorities in the Colombian capital Bogota said they had arrested three Irish men who had been in an area of the country controlled by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), marxist rebels waging an ongoing guerrilla war. The authorities accused them of being members of Sinn Fein IRA and of training FARC fighters. The three men had been travelling on false passports. At first they said they were eco-tourists but later added they were there to study the Colombia peace process.



While the IRA is long known to have nurtured international links with paramilitary organisations including ETA in Spain and Palestinian groups, the news came as a total surprise. While security forces tried to assess what was going on, Sinn Fein denied that the three men were working for the party but later after American pressure admitted that they where indeed Sinn Fein IRA members."

From www.upmj.co.uk/ira_farc.php4

IRA, in FARC controlled area, Fake passports, looking at the flora and fauna. No really.

Where as Louise Woodwards guilt is sketchy at best. It was based largely on medical expert advice rather than witness or any other evidence and in the light of all the recent shaken baby aquitals which were, by and large, similar read the following....

"Medics who arrived at the Eappen household following Woodward's 911 call found that the baby had two-and-a-half inch skull fracture. Matthew's eyes were bulging - a possible sign of Shaken Baby Syndrome."

www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/tv_guide/full_details/Crime/programme_2486.php

There was also a long list of other au pairs of the family who had either been sacked or quit who testified that the other son, a toddler, was often excessively violent towards the baby. Although in fairness she should have been able to prevent this sort of injury, so is partially to blame if the toddler did indeed injure the baby whilst it was under her care.
 
#15
spams may shove there oar in big style george while busy with the sandpit has'nt quite forgotten the jungle so may not take kindly to "communist terrorists" hiding in ireland
does'nt know where ireland is hates boston democrats
:twisted:
 
#16
Eh, your "factual" story comes from the Ulster Protestant Movement for Justice

And they put this as a footnote on their website: Hardly a balenced source?

If they think that listing everything they're interested in on their front page, is going to improve their google status then they've not done their homework on the google algoritim either.

Needless to say , the robot catcher is edited, as I really don't want certain other 'meat-eating' robots trawling :D - PTP

righto. lesson for next time.
 
#17
chocolat_frog wrote:

"Of course, Bugsy your example is slightly flawed. The 3 murdering scum flith who were caught in columbia are actually guilty. They were caught training FARC."

I take it you're using the phrase "murdering scum filth" to emphasise your objectivity in the matter.

They were apprehended in the company of persons whom the Colombian government suspected of being members of FARC. This turned out to be wrong. In fact, one of them was an undercover agent for the Columbian secret police. That's why there was essentially no case to answer. That's why they were acquitted.

Sorry if that doesn't fit into your scheme of "justice", chocolate_frog.

MsG
 
#18
Wether or not they are guilty of training other terrorists is irrelevent; by joining the IRA, they forfited any right to fair play. Terrorists deserve no mercy at all.
 
#19
countdokku said:
Wether or not they are guilty of training other terrorists is irrelevent; by joining the IRA, they forfited any right to fair play. Terrorists deserve no mercy at all.
Now that's funny, but when the Ivans were in Afghanistan, they called the Mujahedin terrorists too, although WE all called them "freedom fighters".
I suppose it depends on who's defining whom, doesn't it?

MsG
 
#20
Bugsy,

You're absolutely correct - it all depends who defines the terrorist. In this case it's the Columbian government and they have, through due process (regardless of what you or anyone thinks of that process) found these 3 individuals guilty.

Now myself, coming from the same part of the UK as these 3 "anthropoligists", I don't have a problem with Columbia's judicial system. If I did, I WOULDN'T GO THERE. Perhaps they should have though about it this before they went on their nature trip.

In regards to your statement "if we replace IRA with SAS wherever it crops up" while I know the Replublican movement would love to legitmise the terrorist organisation which is the IRA, don't you fall for it. They murdered 1700ish of their own countrymen. And even if you could stretch the point of soldiers and policemen who were upholding law and order as being "legitimate targets", the 500 civilians they murdered certainly weren't. And therefore, while they have the name "Army" in their title, they cannot and should not be compared to soldiers.

SVM
 

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