IRA Decomissioning

Pedantic though this may be, in the GF agreement are the Paramilitary organisations referred to by name? I have lost my copy so I cant check.

And everyone is using the name of the IRA, haven't they been in 'Ceasefire' since the split in the early 70's so shouldn't we be demanding more of PIRA ie Photographs.

To date the only organisation that has complied with the GF requirements albeit on a token basis is the fact UTV showed footage of some of their 'Surrendered' weapons being destroyed.
And everyone is using the name of the IRA, haven't they been in 'Ceasefire' since the split in the early 70's so shouldn't we be demanding more of PIRA ie Photographs.
We all know that'll happen LWM....

From a Govn that has allowed over £150m to be spent on the Bloody Sunday enquiry, I feel sure that nothing will be done that might upset or antagonise 'the other side'. For once, I actually agree with Paisleys opinion.


Kit Reviewer
Aye, seconded Flushy.

It's rare that I'll go along with Paisley's spoutings, but this one is less of a rant than a very reasonable request for PIRA to comply with at least one of the points of the 'Good' Friday Agreement.
Peace? lol - CIRA anyone? Every two months they will plant a device against the army or police - thankfully they are f*ck ups and havent managed to seriously injure or kill anyone... yet.
manchestercop said:
Peace? lol - CIRA anyone? Every two months they will plant a device against the army or police - thankfully they are f*ck ups and havent managed to seriously injure or kill anyone... yet.
thats because they have run out of steam and they know it, in 30+ years they have acheived nothing , if we wanted to, we can always knuckle down to another 30 years of attrition till the CIRA fade out of existence and confined itself to printing leaflets and "An Poblachts" as had happened in the IRA Border campaigns in the 50s.
however this will not take away the fact that the catholics have been discriminated against and it still continues today , unless the underlying social issue is resolved then the touchpaper will continue to be primed.
if the Unionist Govt in the 60s had given catholics equal rights and opportunities including decent housing the situation we have found ourselves in would never have happened.
things have improved a great deal since i have been to Belfast and Omagh, the impressio i get is that most catholics are pragmatic about remaining part of the UK as there are Economic benefits also the culture of NI is Urbanised more akin to the North of England unlike the south which tend to be rural in nature
semper said:
Why the **** does everyone feel the need to mention Omagh? It had the shit blown out of it yes, so did many other places - thankfully not everywhere saw the same loss of life in one go.
Excuse my quoting myself (from a Multinational HQ 'Irish Defence Forces' discussion), but this may clarify something about the various varieties of IRA knocking about:

...Sinn Féin/PIRA went Marxist in 1970, when they split from the Official IRA ('The Stickies') and we got wonderfully stupid groups such as Republican Sinn Féin, which included such luminaries as Séan MacStiofáin (or RAF Cpl. John Stevenson as he once was; living proof of the adage that one should never trust the convert as he has too much to prove). Other off-shoots of the various splits which characterise republicanism are the IPLO and the INLA/Irish Republican Socialist Party - they specialise in killing each other.

'The Stickies' later became the Workers' Party, then Democratic Left (in coalition government during the 90s) and then merged with the Labour Party a few years ago. Democratic Left (now there's a thought 8O ) were led by one Pronsias de Rossa (or Captain Frank Ross, late of the IRA in the 1950s/60s). My father was serving at the time Captain Ross was interned in the Military Prison Camp at the Curragh, Co. Kildare during his more...exuberent younger days. Hence the reason he bursts out laughing any time Ross/de Rossa/McRossa/O'Rossa or whatever he calls himself now appears on television looking earnest and constipated with self-importance. Not surprisingly, Mr. (sorry, Captain!) Ross is a Member of the European Parliament.
A point that does seem to have eluded a large number of people is that the continuing instability in Northern Ireland, if not an outright return to the bad old days, actually suits certain people on both sides of 'the divide'. Decommissioning will consign the PIRA to the dustbin of history, therefore this will be a long, painfully drawn-out process (they will do so only when the political climate is suited to their doing so). Politically, Sinn Fein/PIRA are gaining in strength with every passing day. It is almost certain that they will be in government in some form or other after the next general election in the Republic of Ireland - a likelihood that ironically only seems to be now dawning on the mainstream parties (and should have them consulting their histories of the Weimar Republic and how the Nazis, once they went 'all political', managed to subvert the political system there - ridiculous? I think not, as history has a nasty habit of repeating itself).

Paisley, and a good number of his constituents, do not want to share power with Sinn Féin or even the greater number of Catholics - this has been a central plank of unionism since its inception. Unionism, by its very nature, must be exclusive - were it to attempt to 'include' Catholics, it would be effectively signing its political (and indeed 'ethnic') death sentence. Unfortunately, certain strands of unionism, particularly the Paisleyite version, have always regarded Catholics as second-class citizens - even the most cursory perusal of history will show this. Paisley has made a career out of adding fuel to the political fire of Northern Ireland since the 1960s - like Sinn Féin/PIRA, the situation suits him. And this brings me to a point highlighted by someone else on a related Current Affairs topic, namely that most of the political groups and the political figureheads in Northern Ireland are so tainted by the last 35+ years, that they are mistrusted or ignored by their constituents. Oh yes, they will vote for them because what is the alternative, but politcally, I would hazard to say that the majority of people - both Catholic and Protestant - have effectively grown sick and tired of the constant wrangling. This therefore leaves the way open for the extremists on both sides to take centre stage - as the DUP has from the UUP, and Sinn Féin/PIRA has from the SDLP. Don't be fooled by Paisley's professed loyalism - this, like the 'loyalism' of many of his confreres, is a conditional loyalty; conditional upon the status quo being either maintained, or slanted in favour of unionists. Paisley's Britishness is quite a different thing to that understood on mainland Britain. Likewise, the republicanism of Sinn Féin/PIRA does not mean that Adams & Co. are 'Irish' in the sense that it exists in the Republic of Ireland, or throughout Northern Ireland. Sinn Féin/PIRA adhere to a form of republicanism that is as exclusive as the form of unionism professed by Paisley & Co. They have no love of the Republic of Ireland, its government, institutions or people. It is only relatively recently that the Sinn Féin leadership has stopped publicly referring to the Republic as the 'Dublin' or 'Free State' government. The guiding principle of Sinn Féin/PIRA right now is quite simply power. They are quite prepared to use violence, if not outright terrorism, to attain that end, but they have been doing awfully well from the 'touchy feely' political route thus far, so I wouldn't predict a return to terror just yet (while not ruling it out). Sinn Féin/PIRA should be smart enough to know that they are merely being baited by Paisley when he speaks of humiliating them, but it suits them to be offended by this sort of talk. Likewise, Paisley should wake up to the fact that he is no longer solely haranguing a cluster of Wee Frees in the rain of Ballymena, and that his fire and brimstone talk, while no doubt reassuring to his Free Presbyterian kinsmen, confirms many peoples' belief that he is a politcal troglodyte more suited to preaching to a troop of Cromwells' New Model Ironsides, than an important role in 21st century politics.

My view? - a plague on both their houses.
My view? - a plague on both their houses.
:? couldn't agree more

so, what's the solution? The emergence of centralist political parties that will take votes away from Sinn Fein and the DUP? The SDLP already exists and hasn't done so well recently - because their voters stayed away? Possibly.

Is Westminster just maintaining a holding pattern until the demographics change so much that Catholic voters will effectively vote the DUP out of power and some kind of joining up of NI with Ireland is voted in, and it's no longer 'our' problem?

There is huge contempt for Sinn Fein in Irish politics (especially recently when some kind of bugging devices planted in opposition politicians' offices were traced back to Sinn Fein!) and I think we can guess that the South doesn't want NI.

I just feel, instinctively (rightly or wrongly) that Westminster indulged the Protestant bigots in the most obscene manner for decades and now are having to redress the balance by being more than accommodating to Sinn Fein/IRA to keep the Peace Process on track - as you sow, so shall you reap.

The lack of balls and leadership from Westminster through the last decades almost smacks of patronising indifference to a bunch of paddies and their thuggish enemies - and our elected leaders through the years must hold some responsibility for where we find ourselves.
that bbc book the brits came up with the fact when it all kicked off nobody in westminster really had a clue what was going on IN NI
Prodigal said:
I think we can guess that the South doesn't want NI.
Economically, I'm not sure the South could afford the North

If my memory serves, the North is stronger economically, but only to the extent that it would mean the South losing out on some of its EU hand-outs.

Similarly, the North would find, having been detached from the rest of the UK, that the cross-subsidy from London would go, meaning it would be economically worse off.

The rest of the UK would, however, be better off 8)
There is also the issue that the economy in NI, although improving enormously in the last decade, is still overly reliant on Westminster in all sorts of ways. For example, there is a much greater proportion of Government employees over there (no, not soldiers!) which would need to be slimmed down. These people would have to find alternative employment but the commercial sector is still in recovery.

The celtic Tiger economic boom of the South wasn't fuelled by EU handouts, but by active marketing of Ireland as a place to do business - huge tax breaks for American companies wanting entree into European markets, tax breaks for the film industry and so on. The boom has slowed down, but it did the job.

THIS is the kind of thing that NI politicians should be grabbing headlines for, not squabbling over irrelevancies like photographs of rusting AK47s.
They aren't rusting. I'm willing to bet that they're clean and lightly oiled, and the PE is stored under factory-recommended conditions.
OK, let's imagine you are right Brucefeller - and no reason why you shouldn't be......

then what? These weapons, as far as they interest us (the military), is that they are used for a quasi military purpose. If there is no 'cause' left (which I'll say could be argued now) then any use they are put to hereafter can be put in the 'criminal activity' file - which is what Hugh Orde said when he took over the PSNI.

Those weapons may well be used in some nefarious activity, but it should now be viewed as a Police/Judicial matter. The more people get used to this idea, the more the process of normalisation will advance in NI - which will eventually lead to the reduction of influence of toxic politicians like Paisley.

It doesn't make the tragedy of the consequences of crime any different to the victims - a bomb that kills to put a rival drug dealer out of business is as bad as a bomb that kills in the name of tribalism - but it does make a difference to how communities view the perpetrators who live amongst them.

Who knows, maybe the communities will start to clean out, or at least alienate, those who would take their young peole and corrupt them.
Reports in NI have stated that, far from the demand for photos being a DUP inspired criteria to provide a get out from the latest negotiations, it was inserted by the government, with ROI government approval.
tricam said:
where did hear that BlotBangRub? I can't see their motivation in doing that?
Can't speak for BlotBangRub but it was on BBC Radio 4 news bulletins at least three times the day the story broke, and in the Telegraph that day or the next too IIRC. Despite what Adams et al have been sayng, this was apparently agreed a while ago by all parties, it is not a sudden new addition by Paisley and his mates, and Sinn Fein/PIRA have just decided to make an issue out of it for reasons of their own...
Yes, I heard it on a couple of different radio stations.

I think it is to restore some confidence in the process, after the last "placing beyond use" of PIRA weapons the various officials of the decomissioning body lost any credibility they had with the Unionist community.
A real step forward would come from the permanent "decommissioning" of the "Rev" Ian Paisley.
He hates us as much as he does the Catholics.
He's a bloody Neanderthal with the morals of Heinrich Himmler.

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