IQ of 83 and below are untrainable, no matter the resources

I can speak with a certain degree of authority (empirical knowledge) that many towns in the North West of England that have a high demograph of asian populace - is most definately not reflected in the makeup of residents in care homes.

No - I am not a care assistant or whatever the role is referred to nowadays.
So by a process of elimination, that means you are an old asian person.
 
you'll struggle to find double figures of asians in any care home in Blackburn or Burnley.

My point being - certain cultures take care of their elderly.

Others put them in care homes and let others take care of them.
I am not saying that this is always the case.

However, there is a notable number for whom caring for relatives is their ‘job’.
Where this cannot be swung then for some the local authority provides allowances to the person being cared for, who will then ‘employ’ a person known to them using this allowance.

This enables the person who is employed to gain access to a large amount of benefits, give them access to ‘perks’ of living in the UK and to sponsor relatives to enter the UK.

Yes, I am cynical.

ETA: As has been noted on other threads but not so far on this one, if you look at the average large family from the Indian Sub-continent, where they marry their cousins for generation after generation, it is more than normal to see at least one child that looks a bit ‘special’. It took a peer from that ethnic grouping to raise the problem in the House of Lords, and has been given a thorough ignoring ever since.
 
Interesting point.

How many old folks homes do you see with residents who are not white or British born etc though.
There's a Chinese care home, with a very popular lunch club in the West End of Glasgow. I know because I used to order the food in for their kitchen when I worked for Catering Direct, because the purchasing team were a bit more squeamish than me, and the idea of chicken's feet etc. used to upset them. There was one elderly English guy who had been born in HK before retiring to Glasgow and worked there all his days there who used to translate special requests from the service users for me or occasionally I would meet up with him and take him to the Chinese Cash and Carry to get stuff, then we would go for a pint.
 

Nobody

RIP
RIP
Well I can't argue with any of the above observations.
I can only speak empirically but - I accept my version may not be reflected nationwide.


How's that for fecking diplomacy?!...

<eagerly awaits UN appontment invitation so I have the satisfaction of decling the bastard!>
 
Totally agree.
when our middle girl was diagnosed as “ on the spectrum , ” aged 5 , and we were given a diagnosis by a consultant to that effect , I thought my world had just imploded.
As it turns out that written diagnosis was worth it’s weight in gold.( To Yanwath primary school particularily so, they left her to draw in the corner for two years whilst they milked her for £25k a year and the other children’s sharp elbowed mothers treaTed her like it was fvcking contagious.)
moving her to another school at 7 transformed her academically and she has senco support but is doing fabulously at the local grammar school now.
Our youngest is also on the spectrum ( mostly in speech development though she is globally about 4 years behind her age ) We saw the support tighten up considerably by the time we noticed a problem but as we had been to the rodeo before with virtually identical behaviour, we got a diagnosis as the HCProfessionals could hardly dare not to.
The sad thing is we see parents who have children loads more “ challenging” than our youngest who, being new to all this , cannot get a statement or help of any kind but the most grudging basic nature.
The consultants are not fools or blind so I can only assume the reluctance to give a diagnosis is financially driven.
To those who would jeer I would just say this hit us like so many families ,out of the blue , and if you have a profoundly autistic child ( particularily boys) without help the rest of your life could well be a worrying , stressful living hell.We see it all the time.
That just got a dumb from the w@nker lobster.
just class.!
 

Fr SpodoKomodo

War Hero

1631120691330.png
 
Totally agree.
when our middle girl was diagnosed as “ on the spectrum , ” aged 5 , and we were given a diagnosis by a consultant to that effect , I thought my world had just imploded.
As it turns out that written diagnosis was worth it’s weight in gold.( To Yanwath primary school particularily so, they left her to draw in the corner for two years whilst they milked her for £25k a year and the other children’s sharp elbowed mothers treaTed her like it was fvcking contagious.)
moving her to another school at 7 transformed her academically and she has senco support but is doing fabulously at the local grammar school now.
Our youngest is also on the spectrum ( mostly in speech development though she is globally about 4 years behind her age ) We saw the support tighten up considerably by the time we noticed a problem but as we had been to the rodeo before with virtually identical behaviour, we got a diagnosis as the HCProfessionals could hardly dare not to.
The sad thing is we see parents who have children loads more “ challenging” than our youngest who, being new to all this , cannot get a statement or help of any kind but the most grudging basic nature.
The consultants are not fools or blind so I can only assume the reluctance to give a diagnosis is financially driven.
To those who would jeer I would just say this hit us like so many families ,out of the blue , and if you have a profoundly autistic child ( particularily boys) without help the rest of your life could well be a worrying , stressful living hell.We see it all the time.
I still remember Blake getting his first diagnosis at 5 years of age via community paediatrics.

Me and his Mum went to grab some lunch after the appointment with the speech and language therapist and for 2 days after, I sat wondering had I done enough with him as a toddler to reach his milestones.
Killed me for ages, blaming myself for the way he was.
It was only after his first peadiatrician and parent teacher meeting in his new SEN school, that I started to realise, nothing I could have done would've brought him anymore than he had.

I know how you feel about the world imploding, fearful for the kids futures.

My mates words to me around that time was "Don't worry kids are sponges, when they're around other kids, their own age, they'll be grand.

Within 6 months my wee lad was talking like his peers.
 

enpointe

Old-Salt
<snip>
An educational psychologist I spoke to said almost every ASD case she saw had dietary, mobility, and sensory problems as well. That's before accounting for Learning disabilities. And there's a strong genetic theme, so you often have several kids from the same family with similar, but not the same, issues.
<snip>


.
you appear to be ignoring that a lot of the discomfort and dysfunction that autistic people experience in everyday life is becasuse of the expectations neurotypicals have over things like clothing choice or foods
 
you appear to be ignoring that a lot of the discomfort and dysfunction that autistic people experience in everyday life is becasuse of the expectations neurotypicals have over things like clothing choice or foods
Since I live with an autistic in my house I think I am qualified to comment on the fact that I do not "expect" them to do anything. I do know for a fact that trying to get a healthy balanced diet into someone who can't cope with anything green, strong smelling or anything with a texture above that of porridge is difficult, and that an unbalanced diet just isn't good for them.
Hey, what do I know.
I have only been living with it for nearly 20 years.
 
Since I live with an autistic in my house I think I am qualified to comment on the fact that I do not "expect" them to do anything. I do know for a fact that trying to get a healthy balanced diet into someone who can't cope with anything green, strong smelling or anything with a texture above that of porridge is difficult, and that an unbalanced diet just isn't good for them.
Hey, what do I know.
I have only been living with it for nearly 20 years.

I think Enpoint is highlighting that that some of the behavioural aspects of ASD are pathologised because they are held up against neurotypical norms - in terms of the social skills, obsessive interests, not wishing to socialise etc. And it certainly doesn’t invalidate your experiences.

Generally I think this is a recent development or school of thought - to change how we thinking about such individuals- and such concepts are coming about because of the involvement of people with ASD in the research on ASD. So it’s the community who have ASD who are pushing this.

Another example I heard from a colleague who publishes on this stuff is that the medical literature will claim that ASD is missed in girls because they act differently to males with ASD. Now the push is to have this seen as a fault with the clinicians clinical skillset rather than the service user and to push the emphasis away from the individual presenting with ASD. Generally there is still some ignorance around how ASD presents even by clinicians who have this as their bread and butter (and certainly nothing to do with the codswallop and misinformation spouted by another poster on this thread - that clinicians are provided with some kind of financial incentive to not diagnose individuals).
 
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I think Enpoint is highlighting that that some of the behavioural aspects of ASD are pathologised because they are held up against neurotypical norms - in terms of the social skills, obsessive interests, not wishing to socialise etc. And it certainly doesn’t invalidate your experiences.

Generally I think this is a recent development or school of thought - to change how we thinking about such individuals- and such concepts are coming about because of the involvement of people with ASD in the research on ASD. So it’s the community who have ASD who are pushing this.

Another example I heard from a colleague who publishes on this stuff is that the medical literature will claim that ASD is missed in girls because they act differently to males with ASD. Now the push is to have this seen as a fault with the clinicians clinical skillset rather than the service user and to push the emphasis away from the individual presenting with ASD. Generally there is still some ignorance around how ASD presents even by clinicians who have this as their bread and butter (and certainly nothing to do with the codswallop and misinformation spouted by another poster on this thread - that clinicians are provided with some kind of financial incentive to not diagnose individuals).
These are valid points, and in one way reinforces the point I made about IQ tests.
IQ tests measure the ability of the subject to answer questions drawn from our background culture.
ASD tests measure the ability of the subject to function against the neurotypical scale.
The problem is that both tests use a metric designed by people who are from the background culture and neurotypical world.
Although there are some on the ASD who are proud and capable of owning their ASD and find it gives them some advantages, the fact remains for many others it is a constant living nightmare, because the neurotypical world is the real world, and they have to live in it.
 
This sort of talk always reminds me of the fantastic quote from Kurt von Hammerstein
I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage
 

Yokel

LE
This sort of talk always reminds me of the fantastic quote from Kurt von Hammerstein

One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage..

So why do they keep getting Middle Management and Staff Officer roles?
 
I am not saying that this is always the case.

However, there is a notable number for whom caring for relatives is their ‘job’.
Where this cannot be swung then for some the local authority provides allowances to the person being cared for, who will then ‘employ’ a person known to them using this allowance.

This enables the person who is employed to gain access to a large amount of benefits, give them access to ‘perks’ of living in the UK and to sponsor relatives to enter the UK.

Yes, I am cynical.

ETA: As has been noted on other threads but not so far on this one, if you look at the average large family from the Indian Sub-continent, where they marry their cousins for generation after generation, it is more than normal to see at least one child that looks a bit ‘special’. It took a peer from that ethnic grouping to raise the problem in the House of Lords, and has been given a thorough ignoring ever since.
My wife knows a senior registrar at a paediatric unit on weirside.
The vast ( and by that she means 80% +) multi issue , profoundly disabled
children she sees, have parents of subcontinental origin.
she said ( off the record!) “ It’s a crying shame the Hindu scriptures and the Koran, didn’t have chapters written by Gregor Mendel and Charles Darwin.”
 
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I've not watched the clip so I don't know whether it covers this already. In the Vietnam war, there was a senator, McNamara, who is infamous for enabling the draft of people with low IQs. They were known as "McNamara's morons" and did get drafted en masse to Vietnam where they did not fly up the ranks, funnily enough.
Secretary of defense NOT a Elected official. the guy made Rumsfeld look good
 
Memory jog:- Ex dawn patrol, Sardinia 1974. 16 para and 216 para Sigs on exercise with 101st and 82 US para regts.. ( I was attached to provide a service.) A combined camp site. A communal mess tent, washing your plates and KFS was done in large buckets of hot water. All Water, washing, drinking, showers Etc was held in large canvas open topped reservoirs, topped up daily from tankers.

Coming out from the mess tent, i saw two america paras, casually walk over to one of the water reservoirs, and wash their plates in the clean communal water. They were totally unaware of what they had done. ;)
Yeah thats a lie, a good one but a lie nonetheless

See what your forgot is in Basic and AIT and at their units on FTX they would learn to use the trash cans with 1 hot clean, 2 hot soapy and scrub, 3 hot clean rinse.

Lister(Lyster) bags are hung with a canvas cover


Nice try though, really
 
On ex, with Septics in a similar situation except when queuing for the food they all struggled to juggle rifle and various bits of kit and get served with food. It never occurred to them to have a couple of lads mind their gear whilst being served. Then swap places so the others couod get their scran.
Even the Pioneers would have sussed that. Imagine, Pioneers more intelligent than Septic grunts.
I was inspired to greater efforts during debugs knowing what our chances of surviving 3 Shock knowing this bunch were on our flank.
You do comprehend it was standard orders to keep your weapon with you(tactical training and all that), also to spread 5m apart so a single mortar bomb doesn't get 5 lads reaching for a second sausage
 
Yeah thats a lie, a good one but a lie nonetheless

See what your forgot is in Basic and AIT and at their units on FTX they would learn to use the trash cans with 1 hot clean, 2 hot soapy and scrub, 3 hot clean rinse.

Lister(Lyster) bags are hung with a canvas cover


Nice try though, really
Not a lie old son, i was on attachment, The 82 & 101 airborne shared a field mess with our lot, i stood and watched two grunts from the land of the free, and home of the terminally stupid was their plates in the communal water reservoir... Ex Dawn patrol. Teulada camp. south Sardinia. April -may 1974. ;)
 

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