Interesting Soviet Era Maps

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Arandale, Feb 27, 2007.

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  1. Interesting Soviet Era Maps.

    BBC Points West (Tuesday 27 February) carried an interesting piece about some Soviet era maps that have been discovered.

    The BBC Points West news team were pontificating what the purpose and origins of such detailed maps might be.

    The maps covering the South West were extremely well detailed and included maps of both Bristol and Swindon, they even detailed outlying towns such as Clevedon.

    What was telling about these maps were the circles rather than the gridlines that are overlaid on them. From the glimpse I had of the one for Bristol the ‘first circle’ appears over the extensive then British Aircraft Corporation and Rolls Royce factories at Filton.

    The last time I saw something similar it was in relation to maps of the Suffield training area in Canada. The Suffield maps were marked with circles precisely because Suffield had previously been earmarked by the Canadians as their test sight for a nuclear programme which they subsequently abandoned.

    The inescapable conclusions that can be drawn from these maps are that they were intended to be used in the event of the unthinkable with ‘ground zero’ centring over the aircraft facilities in northwest Bristol.

    Wonder if the Soviets were ever aware of RAF Caerwent which lies just across the Severn Estuary from the Filton site? The site was occupied by the US Army (Europe) for a considerable number of years before their draw down.

    Were they ever aware of Hallen and the critical role that played in relation to war preparations? Chilling but hardly surprising!
     
  2. I remember doing a cadre with 42 survey group RE's and all the map maker chappies had RAF cotton escape maps as covers for their best boots, these maps had cities such as Samarkand, Tashkent etc etc on them with all the airfields marked out!! did the RAF really think they'd make it that far before being blasted out of the wide blue yonder!!
     
  3. With a combination of flying fast and low in their Vulcans, approaching from many different directions (the reason why so many overseas bases had V-Force dispersals) and the use of Blue Steel stand-off attack missiles that was the idea.
     
  4. Talking about silk escape maps, my dad recalls that during the 80's a mapstore at krefeld being cleared out, and THOUSANDS of the things were thrown away. Those things fetch £30-50 EACH on e-bay now. so if someone knows of a mapstore that needs digging out, give me a call......
     
  5. Same as Berlin. When the drawdown took place the stores were emptied and the green plastic wallets came out. The silk maps were from Allied Ocupation days and showed on one side TriZonia and on the other Occupied Austria. It also had inside the baby compass, the language jobber "Help me escape and we will give you money - eventually" in about a dozen languages, a file and fishing hooks and line.

    No cyanide pills and no gold coins.

    My ex-Missus chucked it - stoopid bitch.

    In the seventies I also saw an RAF pilots overlay of part of the Ukraine; no marks on it at all. No roads, no villages, no contour line etc - flat as a witches tit!
     
  6. I was always interested in those roads on the training area, 2 mile, 4 mile etc and was told on my first visit there that it was a British bomb that was tested and only we were stupid enough to exercise over it. By the third visit I was told that we had tested explosives but only huge quantaties of TNT. No explanaion why but there that's one of lifes little mysteries.

    Never thought that the Canadians ever dabbled with nukes where did you get this from may I ask?
     
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  8. Jadex Junction? One of the largest non-nuclear explosions ever. I think it was to test the blast effects of nuclear weapons. The Brits and Canadians also had a Chemical Warfare Centre at BATUS.
     
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  10. TNT doesnt make radioactivity. But if it produces a fireball, it will make fallout, but not neccessarily of the radioactive variety.

    Ahh, My coat......<Slam> <Rapid footsteps receding>
     
  11. geo7863 wrote. “I remember doing a cadre with 42 survey group RE's and all the map maker chappies had RAF cotton escape maps as covers for their best boots, these maps had cities such as Samarkand, Tashkent etc etc on them with all the airfields marked out!! did the RAF really think they'd make it that far before being blasted out of the wide blue yonder!!

    Oh the wonders of deceptions and perceptions. Was the downing of Francis Gary Powers evidence or luck and coincidence?

    Was Soviet air defence all that it was imagined to be? I recall one German youth in a light aircraft penetrated Soviet air defences and flew right the way to Moscow, circled the Kremlin several times before landing his aircraft in Red Square.

    Red faces followed by Red justice – they threw the misguided youth into a Moscow gaol for a few years.

    In 1990 when coalition aircraft totalled Saddam’s air defences, it was reported that there was sheer horror in Moscow because the air defence network in Iraq was supplied by the Soviets and was the system upon which the Russians relied.

    So hindsight evidence would seem to suggest that yes the V bomber force of the RAF would have penetrated far more easily than even our own intelligence estimated would be the case.

    Touching upon things unexplained. I wonder if we will ever know the truth behind the stealing of the Concorde plans (minus the vital mod ones) that resulted in Concordeski?

    Or perhaps more revelations about the transmission equipment ‘found’ buried in South Wales and attributed at the time to being Soviet equipment provided to British (or should that be Welsh) sympathisers to assist Soviet Special Forces in time of war?
     


  12. Rumour control Stumpy - that was the explanation we were given for the mile markers and circles on the maps, who knows the truth? Whatever the truth was they were not about to share it with us were they?
     
  13. And before I get some smart arrsed comments, I have made appropriate allowances for the differentials between the technoligies of the 1960's and the 1990's

    I was not trying to suggest that the Soviet side has not kept pace with technological advances, but neither did the NATO side of the equation either.

    But balancing the capabilties of the RAF V force of the day against the Soviet air defence capabilities of the day I suspect that some of the Vlucans would have made it all the way to their targets.