Interesting short article on Scottish Independence

Hmmm... Aside from the Andrew losing a place to park their ungentlemanly craft I see no major downside. We've used most of the oil and I prefer the Lake District to the Highlands....
so you think England would be better off
I suppose some number crunching would be required to see if we will benefit from it as much as the Scots would also will we still maintain an amicable arrangment for the foreseeable future or will we bicker until Divorce looks like a better option.

the Czech and Slovak did just that, known as the Velvet Divorce.


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Jesus. Do you want to try that in English?

Mod edit. Slightly confusing but see IT Guy's post below and the quote he has, er, quoted. Sixty's post above refers to that post (and not Semper's) which has been removed to A&E. Hope that makes sense! Sixty, apologies for any confusion. Forastero
Financialy I think that England would be better off. Still don't want to see the break-up of the Union though. Yet I expect it (the breakup) is inevitable.
Scots? Do one. Please. We'll even pay the 8 or 9% and hand you your share of the debt.

You want it - you have opened the box and believed Mel Feckin Gibson. You deserve your independence.

Fcuk independence. It's a lame haggis.

If it ever get's that far, i'll be sneaking down from the grampian's to shoe Salmond's mob to death.

We've already had our orders from the only authority in the land, the highland granny, and she said words to the effect of, "pish aff yur scunners, nae independence!!"

I could very well be wrong since it's been a while since I read up on the whole affair but don't the Acts of Union have a clause basically saying that only the English/UK Parliament gets to decide if and when to dissolve the whole affair and in what manner to do so? I'll have to double check now.

As for Scotland going independent, in my opinion they'd either make it after something of a rough start or there would be some sort of incident along the lines of Darien Scheme level disaster and the whole thing comes unstuck. Well we already have one Scottish supposed financial genius royally buggering up the economy at the moment. ;) On the basis of splitting the assets, why not simply do that and then agree to take their half of all the debts in return for all the best parts of their half of the assets? :)
fredsmith said:
Forgetting about oil for a second scotlands economy would suffer with the public sector being to large in comparison to public. To many people living of 2 few as somemay say although techincally inaccurate. Its not the ratio of people but money thats important. You could have 90 percent if they were payed buttons and t he 10 percent made a lot of money.

Public sector wages would need to come in to line with private sector productivity increase. Of course in theory the private sector could just grow to pay for these people but that may not happen.

In scotland at moment the public sector are often better payed worked less retire at 60 on half salery taxpayers handouts. Because the jobs pay above the markey rate and unlike private sector where there is an incentive to employee good people to make manger money. This does not happen in public sector people give there assocates mates jobs as favour because you get all the extra money above market rate.

Although scottish grow has been consisncy lower than the uk as whole this public sector problem is buffered by england and wales and or the oil depending on your pollical postion. Some people think the oil should be scottish if so then yes the oil allows this ineffcient inbalance economy some says its not so its the rest of the uk through barrnet formula etc.
Thats a poltical point what no one argues about (no one who gradute 7th grade) is that scotlands economy is imbalanced having a much larger percentage public sector over the uk. This would hamper growth.

If scotland splits and gets the oil revenue can be used to offset this public "liability" and may make scotland richer briefly. If the money was used increadinly well the public sector reduced and the private sector incetised with the oil revenue. For example cutting coperation tax and getting inward investment and scottish economy properly kicking then this might be achivable in the window before oil revenues dwindle.
What would be a problem is in Edinburgh a lot of stu[id weak people lazy people are getting fat on one of the handout programm driving german made cars sitting aboyt drunk retiring at 60 on half pay and working 35 hours a week at times when it suits them when they have no headache.
The problem would be to reduced these people handouts that they have been accusomed two quick enough to free up the money to free up money to use to create growth and balance the rations.

Alex Salmond is light years ahead of labour in terms of the economic understanding. Labour being happy to run the Scotland on the back of UK or oil depending on opion. Labours vote comes from the public sector in lagre. Even though salmond might have the brains. The problem would be it would be poltically very diffcult to make these changes.

If an independant happened and got through the first 20years and restructing it could be more succesful in the longer term. It may just be the what scotland needs. Tought decsions would have to be made but in the longer terms scotland could be very prosperous.
Presently when the oil run outs or funding is reduced scotland will have problems its poor growth related to its public sector problems means that when money is reduced to scotland which it will be in the union there will be problems becuase the private sector is not growing any where near fast enough. Because demographic transitions if leaved uncheckecked things will get worse. Just to stand still things would need to be happeing which are not.

Although personally my opion would be based on what suits me as is the case with most people.
I would support indepenace as I dont have the handshake (as an analoguey) to benefit from the current set up it just limits opertunity for me.
As most people would support what suits them and people who are have tanagable benefits being more passionate than those who may benefit under a new regime I think scotland with proberly stay in the union for better or worse. In my guess better in the short term possibly not in the longer term.

Some people have different theories but most peoples are either self interest or football suporter mentality. These could be useful to harness poltically but are pritty much white noise.
I've just pasted that into Microsoft Word and it counted 73 spelling and grammatical errors.

May I suggest you try doing the same before posting?
fredsmith said:
Forgetting about oil for a second scotlands economy would suffer with the public sector being to large in comparison to public. To ......Blah Blah Blah
Absolutely correct, Although Public sector growth has been an illness which WILL affect the whole UK economy in a serious fashion, as Liarbour have increased this sector well beyond the "Kanesian" recommended 15%, it will affect an independent Scottish economy more.

Areas like the west of Scotland that became a government priority around seven years ago has felt an astonishing level of employment government "buy back", a situation that is already causing union unrest because of the inevitability of "streamlining" if you talk to Liarbor or "cuts" if you talk to Tory. will the repercussions be as big as the general strike of 1926? I don’t know but I think it will be big.

As for Oil, there is clear international guidelines on Oil resources and you only have to read about the posturing in the Arctic to understand firstly the principle, and secondly the international importance placed upon it, and potential impact from it.

The SNP has an Anti Nuclear stance and i can not help but wonder whether this is a school boy fantasy being continued into the real world. It really matters not, the economic impact of this posture will no doubt be felt in time. Hunterston C, if their ever was going to be one, should have been in the final phases of completion now preparing to go live, Hunterston B is dangerously close to the end of its "REAL" life and beyond its recommended life. It is too late to seamlessly introduce a new nuclear power station, and all other options i.e. wind farms, are not cost effective or actually in existence in anywhere near the numbers required to sustain Scottish hunger for power (expect to buy from both England and Norway).

An interesting point on football supporter mentality. It was interesting to hear the fervour in support of the SNP in the lead up to the last election as it was not in any way like what people imagine. A cartoon strip typical conversation went something like this:
Who are you voting for in the next election?
Me? Labour, im a worker and Labour are the party of the working man always have been always will be, always labour me!!
Oh right, well the working man is protesting against labour just to make them understand they need us.
Oh right SNP it is, that’s the vote of the working man. Vote SNP.

all it took was a whispering campaign that is sad to say the least.

and before any jocks start getting the hump because they resemble that, I am a jock and have been in utter disbelief at almost everything I hear politically since I came home.
Private sector productivity is slowly diminishing in Scotland, as there is a number of factors causing this problem.

factor 1: a low birth rate in the productive cross section of society over the last 20 years (and a high birth rate in the non productive benefit claiming) has created a void in skilled and middle management employment, that is likely to increase over the next ten years. a recent report has suggested that a high rate of immigration will be required in order to sustain or develop the private sector.

factor 2: Private investment of any meaningful level is virtually non existent outside of call centres and support roles (call centres with a bit of tech know how by the way). The impact of this type of investment is such that many colleges catering for inhabitants of previously rundown areas do not offer a substantial selection of courses outside of hair and beauty and call centre skills. Call centres and industry support roles will not provide any substantial liquidity to an independent economy, aside from income tax as the profit making arm of these companies are not registered in Scotland.

factor 3: Many large companies have already expressed their desire to relocate their operations from Scotland should independence be achieved resulting in local unemployment and loss of valuable liquidity to the economy.

In short I believe that the Scottish Nazi Party are chasing a personal childhood dream which is not for the benefit of the many, and have prospered as a result of the stubborn nature of the voter, who is a Labour man and would die before voting Tory, but will follow the crowd like a heard of sheep and vote SNP because it is the working mans protest vote.

Independence will be a disaster unless a serious rethink occurs.
sanchauk said:
Please can we have a festive truce? Resume normal hostilities after Hogmaney?

Good plan, lets invade on Jan 1st (AM). The sweaties won't even have had time to change skirts.
sanchauk said:
Please can we have a festive truce? Resume normal hostilities after Hogmaney?
Hogmanay you illiterate Oatmeal Savage. :p

And that is "New Year" to the rest of the ENGLISH speaking world.

Have a good one though. :D
Baahhh Humbug!!

For the first time I am actually interested in debating politics, and nobody cares :crying:

where's Sven when you need him?
Good Plan, i'm all for it. And when you do the off, you'll be standing around in the freezing cold scratching your baws looking lost while we'll all be dan sawrf shagging all yur birds :)


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T.F.R said:
Baahhh Humbug!!

For the first time I am actually interested in debating politics, and nobody cares :crying:

where's Sven when you need him?

From memory, I think I'm one of the few people on here who openly admits to being a card carrying member of the SNP (and a British soldier. Go figure). However I'm at work and can't really devote the time to the argument.

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