Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

[Truxx]

I don’t recollect that being involved in an RTA was ever in itself a disciplinary offence; the charge was always one of negligence?

What did change was the burden of proof. Summary dealings for stuff like RTA, losing an ID card etc etc weren’t exactly fair trials in the 90s and earlier.

There could be many charges bought as a result of an RTA, it absolutely relies on the circumstances.

You are spot on with the "burden of proof" thing and, like anything else, RTAs had to be properly investigated. Which, as you intimate, they hardly ever were.

But AGAI action became an easy option, and continued the ability to nail an individual without a proper investigation.

 

[pimpernel]

Certainly not - they’d have been proper fights. Officers getting involved in Naafi punch ups risked an escalation of unintended disciplinary consequence that would have done nobody any good.

We were warned when we were Orderley Officer never to get involved in NAAFI events. We did, but normally well protected by a BoS and a couple of prowler sentries.

 

[stacker1]

Certainly not - they’d have been proper fights. Officers getting involved in Naafi punch ups risked an escalation of unintended disciplinary consequence that would have done nobody any good.

Values and standards at its best.

Dont try to stop someone getting assaulted because you are an officer.

Im pretty sure stopping someone getting their head kicked in might have done them some good, but hey who gives a **** about the welfare of the soldiers when you can stand back and let someone else get hurt.

 

[Alamo]

I don’t know if the Army terms differed significantly from the RAF before the great God Jointery was born, but the idea that you can simply ‘resign your commission’ and walk away is nonsense. You can be discharged, or put your notice in. The latter took/takes between 6-18 months dependent on the trade manning situation. Same for all ranks.

 

[greenbaggyskin]

Did that actually happen? Perhaps in Scotland, but I doubt it did in England and Wales.

Definitely in Scotland, which is why I particularly mentioned PFs.

 

[stacker1]

Did that actually happen? Perhaps in Scotland, but I doubt it did in England and Wales.

I've known it to rarely happen but it was usually when the person already had a confirmed date to start basic training.

 

[greenbaggyskin]

I don’t know if the Army terms differed significantly from the RAF before the great God Jointery was born, but the idea that you can simply ‘resign your commission’ and walk away is nonsense. You can be discharged, or put your notice in. The latter took/takes between 6-18 months dependent on the trade manning situation. Same for all ranks.

Took me 7 weeks to resign my commission and leave in 2008, with a firm job offer in my mitt. At the time it was nominally 7 months if there were no affecting factors. I volunteered to forego any resettlement and only took 2 weeks termination leave. Where there's a will etc.

 

[Alamo]

Took me 7 weeks to resign my commission and leave in 2008, with a firm job offer in my mitt. At the time it was nominally 7 months if there were no affecting factors. I volunteered to forego any resettlement and only took 2 weeks termination leave. Where there's a will etc.

Agreed, if there is a favourable manning situation in your branch and you have a good offer it can happen. But what you did, I presume, was submit a Premature Voluntary Termination, or Early Termination depending on when you did it. Exactly the same procedure as for the junior ranks. ‘Resigning your Commission’ sounds grand and seems to have some folklore attached to it on here, but in reality one ‘leaves’. Bear in mind that for anyone with any decent time served an ET in 6 months time could result in almost instant removal from the workplace (terminal leave, resettlement etc), so it may seem that folk (especially VSOs) just disappear, but that’s not really the case.

(Note - prepared to be educated that the Army had different rules once)

 

[velcrostripes]

How? Do you know what perverting the course of justice entails?

Whips , chains , baby oil .... All sorts

 

[Kroneit44]

No issue with officers driving then, as there hasn’t been in my part of the Army for a very long time

I believe it's the case in my place, at least the SO2s aren't meant to drive.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

A soldier knocks another soldier over, then gets put on his arse (possibly in defence).
The RMP ignores the first assault?

I assume so if there's no complaint?

 

[Danny_Dravot]

At my first unit a officer was trying to get out but the CoC refused him, he committed suicide. I assume he couldn't resign his commission either.

he would have been in first 4 years of service

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

I assume so if there's no complaint?

AFA 2006

21Fighting or threatening behaviour etc​

(1)A person subject to service law commits an offence if, without reasonable excuse, he fights another person.

(2)A person subject to service law commits an offence if—

(a)without reasonable excuse, his behaviour is—

(i)threatening, abusive, insulting or provocative; and

(ii)likely to cause a disturbance; and

(b)he intends to be, or is aware that his behaviour may be, threatening, abusive, insulting or provocative.

 

[shiny_arrse]

Whips , chains , baby oil .... All sorts

Liquorice Allsorts? You must be a right weirdo...






Well done, carry on.

 

[shiny_arrse]

Did that actually happen? Perhaps in Scotland, but I doubt it did in England and Wales.

I know of one person who said he was in front of a Magistrate (in England) who told him he was going to spend time at Her Majesties pleasure (don't recall what the offence was), either behind bars or in green. No idea if he had already started the application process but he served 22 years.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

AFA 2006

21Fighting or threatening behaviour etc​

(1)A person subject to service law commits an offence if, without reasonable excuse, he fights another person.

(2)A person subject to service law commits an offence if—

(a)without reasonable excuse, his behaviour is—

(i)threatening, abusive, insulting or provocative; and

(ii)likely to cause a disturbance; and

(b)he intends to be, or is aware that his behaviour may be, threatening, abusive, insulting or provocative.

Like I said, it would have been referred to SPA - and can assume that the SPA referred back to unit level for admin action. They would have based their decision on the police reports, not the half-arsed advice from an anonymous military themed website.

 

[Auld-Yin]

I know of one person who said he was in front of a Magistrate (in England) who told him he was going to spend time at Her Majesties pleasure (don't recall what the offence was), either behind bars or in green. No idea if he had already started the application process but he served 22 years.

I joined up with a guy who had been 'advised' that he had two choices of route in his life, crime and jail or army. He chose the latter and once his chippiness was smoothed out he became a very good Recce Pl soldier.

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

Like I said, it would have been referred to SPA - and can assume that the SPA referred back to unit level for admin action. They would have based their decision on the police reports, not the half-arsed advice from an anonymous military themed website.

I think you are getting a bit too invested in this one simply because the original post contained the letters RLC. It was simply a tale with very little background and even less facts. There are no right or wrong comments merely opinions, you may have noticed my original response to the OP started "based on what you have said"

This may or may not have been a correct decision, AGAIs might have been used or other motives may have driven an abuse of process used to cover up events to save reputations and OJARs or to disrupt justice. But we will never ever know.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

I think you are getting a bit too invested in this one simply because the original post contained the letters RLC. It was simply a tale with very little background and even less facts. There are no right or wrong comments merely opinions, you may have noticed my original response to the OP started "based on what you have said"

This may or may not have been a correct decision, AGAIs might have been used or other motives may have driven an abuse of process used to cover up events to save reputations and OJARs or to disrupt justice. But we will never ever know.

It's irrelevant that it was RLC. I was irritated by by your initial suggestion by peverting the course of justice and attempting to rubbish my experience of handling such issues.

I have dealt with (what I thought were) pretty clear cut cases that were deferred back by SPA to CO for AGAI action...as I said, the suggestion of a kangaroo court in this era is ludicrous...but perhaps you know better because I was RLC?

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

It's irrelevant that it was RLC. I was irritated by by your initial suggestion by peverting the course of justice and attempting to rubbish my experience of handling such issues.

I have dealt with (what I thought were) pretty clear cut cases that were deferred back by SPA to CO for AGAI action...as I said, the suggestion of a kangaroo court in this era is ludicrous...but perhaps you know better because I was RLC?

My you need to have a sit down and perhaps slip off the rose coloured specs