Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

[wetsmonkey]

I don’t think anyone can deny, that for a significant period of time, the military have had a 2 tier justice system, with commissioned and other ranks often being treated differently.

It would appear that often officers have been dealt with informally and avoided official and lasting sanction, but in some cases appear to be dealt with more harshly in terms of career prospects ongoing. ORs appear to generally receive more official treatment but it doesn’t always appear to damage their careers.

These are obviously quite general observations. However my 24 year RMP career supports it.

My personal opinion is that a justice system of any type that is seen to be based on who or what you are, rather than what you have done isn’t particularly fair, for either tier and should where possible be as standard as possible.

My opinion.

 

[wetsmonkey]

To add that things do appear to be going in that direction, with significantly more officers than in my time being the subject of CM.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

I don’t think anyone can deny, that for a significant period of time, the military have had a 2 tier justice system, with commissioned and other ranks often being treated differently.

It would appear that often officers have been dealt with informally and avoided official and lasting sanction, but in some cases appear to be dealt with more harshly in terms of career prospects ongoing. ORs appear to generally receive more official treatment but it doesn’t always appear to damage their careers.

These are obviously quite general observations. However my 24 year RMP career supports it.

My personal opinion is that a justice system of any type that is seen to be based on who or what you are, rather than what you have done isn’t particularly fair, for either tier and should where possible be as standard as possible.

My opinion.

Rise up brothers!

ETA: And sisters obviously.

ETA: Five ‘appears’ in your two posts - no proof, just your opinion, you're a credit to your profession.

.

 

[stacker1]

. ORs appear to generally receive more official treatment but it doesn’t always appear to damage their careers.

For every RSM who doesnt have his LSGC there are probably 50 misbehaving bods who never made it that far, its just that people are more likely to notice RSMs who were bad lads.

 

[greenbaggyskin]

I remember the phrase 'Bowler-hatted' being in use when I was a young NCO. It referred to an officer being discharged after being encouraged to resign their commission because of some transgression. The aim being to avoid public disgrace for themselves and their regiments. Only those who refused to resign, or who were accused of particularly serious offences, ended up before a CM.

Maybe the reason we see more officers in CM listings is because nowadays 'Bowler hatting' would constitute constructive dismissal and may not work out as intended (Or officers have less honour than their forebears).

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

It may have been self-defence, defence of another, or any manner of other legal reasons to strike the third party. Your suggestion that it is tantamount to perverting the course of justice without knowing the facts is ludicrous.

I clearly understand the law better than you do.

 

[stacker1]

Maybe the reason we see more officers in CM listings is because nowadays 'Bowler hatting' would constitute constructive dismissal and may not work out as intended (Or officers have less honour than their forebears).

I would also say it would look like the MOD were aiding officers in perverting the course of justice

 

[greenbaggyskin]

I would also say it would look like the MOD were aiding officers in perverting the course of justice

How? Do you know what perverting the course of justice entails?

 

[stacker1]

How? Do you know what perverting the course of justice entails?

Yes it means not bringing people to justice by letting them resign before they can be charged with an offence by the military.

 

[Truxx]

Marty Heslop?

Could not possibly comment.....

 

[Stonker]

However my 24 year RMP career

Oooh, dear me

 

[Stonker]

(Or officers have less honour than their forebears).

Gets my vote.

Been watching that erosion for decades.

Internet makes it - if not more visible - at least more accessible. To those who care to take stock, at least.

 

[greenbaggyskin]

Yes it means not bringing people to justice by letting them resign before they can be charged with an offence by the military.

No it doesn't.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

I clearly understand the law better than you do.

possibly you do - but you still no nothing of this particular case. If it was a straightforward assault (esp involving a junior rank) the RMP or actual police would have been alerted and it would have been dealt with through the disciplinary system. The fact it was an AGAI suggests there was other key factors as alluded to separately by @Caecilius - I suspect the "victim" was also AGAI'd too?

 

[stacker1]

No it doesn't.

The offence of Perverting the Course of Justice is committed when an accused

• does an act or series of acts;
• which has or have a tendency to pervert; and
• which is or are intended to pervert;
• the course of public justice.

The course of justice must be in existence at the time of the act(s). The course of justice starts when:

• an event has occurred, from which it can reasonably be expected that an investigation will follow;
• investigations which could/might bring proceedings have actually started; or
• proceedings have started or are about to start.

Public Justice Offences incorporating the Charging Standard | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

Sounds like letting someone resign to avoid having to be charged fits the bill.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

Gets my vote.

Been watching that erosion for decades.

Internet makes it - if not more visible - at least more accessible. To those who care to take stock, at least.

I'd say absolutely the opposite; some of the absolute tits who I encountered when I first commissioned suggested that all manner of dishonourable behaviour was acceptable, and in some quarters encouraged. As a starter for 10 overt racism and sexism was seen as good form in Inf Bn that I did an attachment too...

Or did you mean that today's officer corps is a much broader church and is not composed of 19yr old public schoolboys, who speak in clipped tones and know how to make a decent pink gin?

 

[stacker1]

possibly you do - but you still no nothing of this particular case. If it was a straightforward assault (esp involving a junior rank) the RMP or actual police would have been alerted and it would have been dealt with through the disciplinary system. The fact it was an AGAI suggests there was other key factors as alluded to separately by @Caecilius - I suspect the "victim" was also AGAI'd too?

I would expect the guardroom to immediately inform the RMP should an assault be reported to them.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

I would expect the guardroom to immediately inform the RMP should an assault be reported to them.

So would I...and perhaps the RMP subsequent investigation concluded that this should be dealt with through administrative action?

 

[stacker1]

So would I...and perhaps the RMP subsequent investigation concluded that this should be dealt with through administrative action?

Very strange if they did ,I cant recall the RMP letting violence slide if two ORs had a fight and one made a complaint.

 

[CAARPS]

I feel I have had a Life on Mars moment (fell asleep and woke up 25 years ago).

I know that in the main the audience is Jurassic, however, a RTA hasn't been a discipline offence for a very long time, unless there is proof of negligence. At the very least for definite 16 years and probably much longer.

I also suspect there are more than a few posts that belong in the urban myth thread